Khaot1c Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 I'm curious if there have been any official words regarding the provisional Limited Optics division. How about any good rumors? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJH Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 My personal belief is they're going to stay to standalone divisions basically as they are now. They both seem to be working extremely well and I don't see any reason to change either one of them from the organizations point of view Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racinready300ex Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 Yeah I don't see anything changing. With the shake up at the last BOD meeting I'm not sure this is a super high priority at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mreed911 Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 It was provisional for a year as-is, wasn't it? So May 1st, 2024 would be the deadline? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathanb Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 It’s too popular to go away and if they change things the board would be admitting they messed up. They don’t do that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racinready300ex Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 7 hours ago, mreed911 said: It was provisional for a year as-is, wasn't it? So May 1st, 2024 would be the deadline? I believe at that point then can just decide to keep it provisional another year. IIRC YML said they would consider it a success if it was like 5% of activity which it exceeded right out of the gate. The only reason I could see it not becoming a division as is, at this point would be the shake up on the BOD. With A6 and A8 being new, A1, A4 resigning and needing to be replaced, A3 getting removed. Most of the BOD will be new since LO was last voted on. So who knows what they'll want to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Braxton1 Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 IMHO, BoD politics will have nothing to do with the decision to keep or discard LO or to merge it with CO. It will be a purely business-based decision, so given the popularity of both Divisions, they'll both stay. I know some will say that I am being naive to the workings of the BoD, but I can't see it going any other way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJH Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 This thread did make me a little curious on the current state of limited optics so, I looked at registration numbers for some major matches coming up in the next month or two. Limited optics was either second or third in every match I looked at. In a couple of them it was actually getting close to carry optics. Carry optics was number one in every match. If limited optics was third open was second. I've got a fairly strong feeling that within no more than 2 years limited optics will be the number one division at every major match that it is allowed at I feel even more confident in saying that nothing will be done to change those two divisions. In fact changing those two divisions would probably be one of the dumbest things financially USPSA could do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 6 hours ago, RJH said: I feel even more confident in saying that nothing will be done to change those two divisions. In fact changing those two divisions would probably be one of the dumbest things financially USPSA could do you are probably right. to me as a shadow 2 owner, it still makes sense to roll. back to some of the original restrictions on CO, like 15 rds, possibly lighter weight,etc, but that would piss a few people off and maybe theres no real reason to differentiate the divisions other than sa vs da and custom. guns vs production guns. one thing i would be strongly against is combining the two divisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texasdawg Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 I know I'm beating a dead horse (but it's fun!) but the CO and LO divisions are basically combined now, to an extent. Any CO gun fits into LO. Don't shoot the jockey,,, just sayin',,, I have both kinds of guns and I shoot PCC, so there's that gay aspect,,, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJH Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 12 minutes ago, texasdawg said: I know I'm beating a dead horse (but it's fun!) but the CO and LO divisions are basically combined now, to an extent. Any CO gun fits into LO. Don't shoot the jockey,,, just sayin',,, I have both kinds of guns and I shoot PCC, so there's that gay aspect,,, Well, any gun that fits in Co fits in lo, and any gun that's not a PCC fits in open so there's that....... While I agree that equal scores can be shot with Co and lo, combining them at this point really doesn't make any sense. If for no other reason than two different markets to make money off of Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 1 hour ago, texasdawg said: I know I'm beating a dead horse (but it's fun!) but the CO and LO divisions are basically combined now, to an extent. Any CO gun fits into LO. Don't shoot the jockey,,, just sayin',,, I have both kinds of guns and I shoot PCC, so there's that gay aspect,,, the issue is that every division that allows custom 2011s is completely dominated by them. if u combine the divisions, everyone except sponsored pros will be shooting custom 2011s within a year or two. it doesn’t even matter if some smart guys think you will get the same score with a da or striker gun. i have tested my shadow2 back to back with my atlas titan, and i would always choose to shoot the 2011 if the division allows it. i would still like to see people be able to compete effectively with lightly modified duty/carry guns, and for that to happen they really need a separate division where the more expensive and competitively superior 2011s are not allowed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJH Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 41 minutes ago, motosapiens said: the issue is that every division that allows custom 2011s is completely dominated by them. if u combine the divisions, everyone except sponsored pros will be shooting custom 2011s within a year or two. it doesn’t even matter if some smart guys think you will get the same score with a da or striker gun. i have tested my shadow2 back to back with my atlas titan, and i would always choose to shoot the 2011 if the division allows it. i would still like to see people be able to compete effectively with lightly modified duty/carry guns, and for that to happen they really need a separate division where the more expensive and competitively superior 2011s are not allowed. Got a question for you, would you be ok with weight limit in CO to be more in line with an actual duty/carry gun? Say 45oz or so? Or some other random number I don't shoot Co and probably never will, just curious about what people who actually shoot it think. I think lo is close to perfect but, I know some people think there should be more variance between the two divisions. I don't really care if there are or not but, enquiring minds and such lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 (edited) 7 minutes ago, RJH said: Got a question for you, would you be ok with weight limit in CO to be more in line with an actual duty/carry gun? Say 45oz or so? Or some other random number i personally would be ok with a weight limit that excluded my s2. i think it would need to accommodate typical duty/carry guns with a flashlight. probably in the 40-45 oz range somewhere. but im also cool with something else… or the status quo. i understand that other people want other stuff, which is why im cool with LO being minor only even tho i would be all over major. the world doesn’t revolve around me. Edited February 16 by motosapiens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stmark73 Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 If I remember correctly, 45oz was the limit for CO when it started. I was able to make my cz shadow2 make weight by replacing parts with lighter counterparts plus the optic and optic cut matters as well. Slide lightening cuts where not approved back then. Mark S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racinready300ex Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 (edited) 8 hours ago, Stmark73 said: If I remember correctly, 45oz was the limit for CO when it started. I was able to make my cz shadow2 make weight by replacing parts with lighter counterparts plus the optic and optic cut matters as well. Slide lightening cuts where not approved back then. Mark S I'm pretty sure it was like 35 then raised to 45, before effectively being eliminated. Edited February 16 by Racinready300ex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJH Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 Here's something crazy I just noticed, a smaller local match I'm shooting this weekend has zero carry optics shooters signed up and limited optics is the biggest division represented right now. That match never had a bunch of production shooters back when production was big and limited always dominated there. So I'm not saying there's any national trends yet but, I found it interesting nonetheless. Also, by match time there could obviously be so carry optics shooters signed up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broadside72 Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 The only reason I accept that LO and CO are separate divisions now is that I can shoot the same gun Saturday and Sunday at our match and not get totally smoked in open. However, I still think there is not enough differentiation in the results to justify the separate division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 11 minutes ago, broadside72 said: The only reason I accept that LO and CO are separate divisions now is that I can shoot the same gun Saturday and Sunday at our match and not get totally smoked in open. However, I still think there is not enough differentiation in the results to justify the separate division. its not necessarily about the scores being similar or different. its about the fact that striker and da guns will disappear from co entirely if they have to compete with 2011s. see limited and open for good examples of this. regarding “getting smoked” in open….. major is only worth 3-5%. if you weren’t close shooting minor, you won’t be close shooting major either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broadside72 Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 10 minutes ago, motosapiens said: its not necessarily about the scores being similar or different. its about the fact that striker and da guns will disappear from co entirely if they have to compete with 2011s. see limited and open for good examples of this. regarding “getting smoked” in open….. major is only worth 3-5%. if you weren’t close shooting minor, you won’t be close shooting major either. its more than just shooting major. frame mounted optics, compensators, 7+ extra rounds in a big stick contribute to the advantages in open. kind of why everyone hates getting bumped to open as the vast majority can't compete against those things with their "regular" guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racinready300ex Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 1 hour ago, broadside72 said: its more than just shooting major. frame mounted optics, compensators, 7+ extra rounds in a big stick contribute to the advantages in open. kind of why everyone hates getting bumped to open as the vast majority can't compete against those things with their "regular" guns. So 5-7% then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJH Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 2 hours ago, motosapiens said: its not necessarily about the scores being similar or different. its about the fact that striker and da guns will disappear from co entirely if they have to compete with 2011s. see limited and open for good examples of this. regarding “getting smoked” in open….. major is only worth 3-5%. if you weren’t close shooting minor, you won’t be close shooting major either. 1 hour ago, broadside72 said: its more than just shooting major. frame mounted optics, compensators, 7+ extra rounds in a big stick contribute to the advantages in open. kind of why everyone hates getting bumped to open as the vast majority can't compete against those things with their "regular" guns. 21 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said: So 5-7% then This is something else that seemed interesting to me so I did some checking. At the area matches last year limited optics or carry optics finished anywhere from 1% at the best to 14% at best behind the best open gun. And the one percent should have been an outright victory for the carry ops but there was a scoring snafu. Most of the time though the best carryoups or limited optics shooter seem to be around that five or six percent area. I did not grab a calculator for averages so that's more of a spitball number on the average Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racinready300ex Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 (edited) 16 minutes ago, RJH said: This is something else that seemed interesting to me so I did some checking. At the area matches last year limited optics or carry optics finished anywhere from 1% at the best to 14% at best behind the best open gun. And the one percent should have been an outright victory for the carry ops but there was a scoring snafu. Most of the time though the best carryoups or limited optics shooter seem to be around that five or six percent area. I did not grab a calculator for averages so that's more of a spitball number on the average Occasionally you'll see a CO guy be a fantasy division in a division at majors. Not really crazy at all at the local level. 5 or 6 you saw seems totally reasonable. Certainly going to be stage and shooter dependent. The more we push partials and distance the more the gains of the comp and frame mounted dot will help. Obviously major becomes a bigger thing as shot difficulty ramps up, that's the biggest think in Opens corner. Edited February 16 by Racinready300ex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racinready300ex Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 I don't know where fantasy came from, and I can't get that to let me edit it. lol Read between the lines you'll figure it out...probably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJH Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 Just now, Racinready300ex said: I don't know where fantasy came from, and I can't get that to let me edit it. lol Read between the lines you'll figure it out...probably. It's the same dumb s*** as the limited min*r stuff. If you try to say H. O. A. or maybe high over all, it changes it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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