pskys2 Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 Got to new business and recessed until January 24 at 7pm. So no news. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IVC Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 Not sure why "killing Revo" keeps popping up - there is no downside to low participation divisions. It's the same course of fire and nothing changes in a match if someone shoots [pick any division you hate]. Having more divisions just gives people more room to play. As long as we have the same power factors and scoring, who cares? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makicjf Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 5 hours ago, IVC said: Not sure why "killing Revo" keeps popping up - there is no downside to low participation divisions. It's the same course of fire and nothing changes in a match if someone shoots [pick any division you hate]. Having more divisions just gives people more room to play. As long as we have the same power factors and scoring, who cares? Was removing or rolling revo into another division the topic? Honestly, I tried to watch, but the absurdities and unnecessary contentiousness were so off putting I decided to wait for the cliff notes . Thanks, Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerMcFadden Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 23 minutes ago, Makicjf said: I decided to wait for the cliff notes. -A7 kicked off the BoD -Sherwin and Bruce to fill 2 vacant AD slots. -Spent $5,000 on polygraphing the board last month -Filled a number of committees with the last remnants of the board. -USPSA got its name back. -No Revo talk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makicjf Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 3 minutes ago, RangerMcFadden said: -A7 kicked off the BoD -Sherwin and Bruce to fill 2 vacant AD slots. -Spent $5,000 on polygraphing the board last month -Filled a number of committees with the last remnants of the board. -USPSA got its name back. -No Revo talk Thanks! Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gargoil66 Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 6 hours ago, IVC said: Not sure why "killing Revo" keeps popping up - there is no downside to low participation divisions. It's the same course of fire and nothing changes in a match if someone shoots [pick any division you hate]. Having more divisions just gives people more room to play. As long as we have the same power factors and scoring, who cares? Absolutely. Same conditions, just a different firearm. And since the data is input to computer, no more time spent classifying revolver shooters than any other. I would say that if USPSA had a division that had zero participation for a couple of seasons, then they would remove it. GG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dchassejr Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 Rumored Revo talk is to add optics to the division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pskys2 Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 3 hours ago, Makicjf said: Was removing or rolling revo into another division the topic? Honestly, I tried to watch, but the absurdities and unnecessary contentiousness were so off putting I decided to wait for the cliff notes . Thanks, Jason I found it kind of funny. Boring, but funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 Basically Revo doesn't bring in new shooters and the number of old ones that will go away is negligible, and there is a cost to keeping it (classifiers, trophies, nationals, etc) so with the current 'Growth Above All' trend, there's no reason for it (or SS or L10) Not saying I agree with it, but that's some of the "get-rid-of-it" thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makicjf Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 (edited) 1 hour ago, shred said: Basically Revo doesn't bring in new shooters and the number of old ones that will go away is negligible, and there is a cost to keeping it (classifiers, trophies, nationals, etc) so with the current 'Growth Above All' trend, there's no reason for it (or SS or L10) Not saying I agree with it, but that's some of the "get-rid-of-it" thinking. Hmm. So USPSA will not have any legacy divisions if this goes through? An option would be to allow revolvers into any division , including optics. If you have a comp, open. No comp LO or CO. Irons Prod or Limited. You could even make a "special category like senior, youth etc with a parenthetical (R) for no cost. All the (R)'s with or without optic know where they finished against their peers with no cost to anyone. Or do they just want old stuff to die? Jason Edited January 23 by Makicjf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pskys2 Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 1 hour ago, Makicjf said: Hmm. So USPSA will not have any legacy divisions if this goes through? An option would be to allow revolvers into any division , including optics. If you have a comp, open. No comp LO or CO. Irons Prod or Limited. You could even make a "special category like senior, youth etc with a parenthetical (R) for no cost. All the (R)'s with or without optic know where they finished against their peers with no cost to anyone. Or do they just want old stuff to die? Jason We ran a Revolver Category at our December USPSA Local Match, we had 6 with 2 of us shooting Open (I even shot major 357's with the dot, spoiler I didn't win either! It wasn't the magnums but the Dot that cost me. It was won by a buddy shooting his minor, iron sighted Revolver. But he is pretty good too.) and R Category. Optics and high capacity are the trends. Makes it easier to run and gun, turn and burn or ? No more having to fuss with that tricky FS picture at various ranges. So yes I think there is some credence to "want old stuff to die". The new 15 round minimum in Production is an attempt to revive Production. My guess, after 40+ years in USPSA/IPSC is Carry Optics, Limited Optics and Open will be hugely popular in that order. Production and Limited will be hangers on PCC and SS are dying and L10 has been on life support since 2004. Where does Revolver fit in? By national numbers it's just limping along. But it is different enough from even the iron sight semi-auto divisions as to have some interest. At the Kansas Free State Championships, Revolver has been the 4th most populated Division for 3 straight years. One reason is me and some buddies keep crowing about it. The Memphis Charity Challenge had around 100 competitors for several years and when Revolver had a stand alone Nationals, after the hugely popular SS Nationals, it also topped 100 competitors. But if contrasted to a CO Nationals with 300+ and a wait list, well all of the other Divisions become also rans. I even had a USPSA RM tell me, you revolver guys have your own game. The insinuation was to go play there and leave USPSA alone. My hope is to try the Optics rather than eliminating the Division. Who knows maybe the future will be back to the past and everyone will be heads up? I could handle that easier than deleting Revolver Division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IVC Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 (edited) On 1/23/2024 at 7:50 AM, shred said: Basically Revo doesn't bring in new shooters and the number of old ones that will go away is negligible, and there is a cost to keeping it (classifiers, trophies, nationals, etc) so with the current 'Growth Above All' trend, there's no reason for it (or SS or L10) Even if it brings just one new shooter it's a net-positive. As long as it doesn't detract shooters "growth" argument is moot. As for the cost, in today's automated world it would be a stretch to say it adds *any* cost, let alone any meaningful cost. Classifiers run on their own, Nationals are like any other match where it doesn't matter if there is a Revo shooter or three, and as for trophies, c'mon, they are what, "buy dozen get half a dozen free" type of a deal at the local Costco or equivalent. If anything, class recognition/trophies/prizes is what needs to go. Classes should be only for people to track their progress and know their standing on the journey to becoming good shooters. EDIT: originally typed "categories" where I obviously meant "classes." Corrected now. Edited January 25 by IVC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IVC Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 1 hour ago, pskys2 said: Production and Limited will be hangers on PCC and SS are dying and L10 has been on life support since 2004. Not sure why PCC would be dying, looks like participation has been booming. Maybe I haven't seen the latest trends, but it wouldn't be a division I'd consider on the way out. The only one I would agree is L10, but only when the magazine bans in commie states (like mine) are overturned at the national level. L10 was a "legal compliance" division from the beginning, not something that was dictated by the equipment alone. When the legal underpinning for L10 is gone, so should be the division. But the rest... let them be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pskys2 Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 1 hour ago, IVC said: Not sure why PCC would be dying, looks like participation has been booming. Maybe I haven't seen the latest trends, but it wouldn't be a division I'd consider on the way out. The only one I would agree is L10, but only when the magazine bans in commie states (like mine) are overturned at the national level. L10 was a "legal compliance" division from the beginning, not something that was dictated by the equipment alone. When the legal underpinning for L10 is gone, so should be the division. But the rest... let them be. At the level 2 here revolver had more than pcc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IVC Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 2 hours ago, pskys2 said: At the level 2 here revolver had more than pcc. The stats from the last USPSA Magazine show PCC consistently at around 10%, which is close to Open and more than L10/Production/Revolver/Single Stack combined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BHBret Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 The meeting is live again. Same link. Area 4 director just resigned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pskys2 Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 Area 7 Director is back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truespode Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 I very happy that Ben Berry is my AD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jubi351 Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 (edited) 8 minutes ago, truespode said: I very happy that Ben Berry is my AD Agreed Edited January 25 by jubi351 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadShot Posted January 25 Author Share Posted January 25 Do we have to go thru 16 more items before they discuss the revolver rule changes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makicjf Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 11 minutes ago, BadShot said: Do we have to go thru 16 more items before they discuss the revolver rule changes? And quite possibly 3 or 4 cast changes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerMcFadden Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 It’s official. They’re sending out a survey if we want optics in Revo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BHBret Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 Just now, RangerMcFadden said: It’s official. They’re sending out a survey if we want optics in Revo. Yay!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishbreath Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 I'm not opposed to optics, but it seems wrong to have them in the division that controls access to IPSC (iron sight) Revolver. I'll be voting 'no' this time, personally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makicjf Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 5 minutes ago, Fishbreath said: I'm not opposed to optics, but it seems wrong to have them in the division that controls access to IPSC (iron sight) Revolver. I'll be voting 'no' this time, personally. Why not carve out a special category? Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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