GunBugBit Posted January 26 Author Share Posted January 26 Once I never see the issue again, I’ll stop thinking about it. Maybe the conversation here will help others with a similar issue understand what could be causing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whan Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 (edited) Nvm it looks like OP already tried my advice Edited January 26 by whan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOGRIDER Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 14 hours ago, GunBugBit said: Related possibly to releasing the trigger at some precise instant, making it more likely the sear nose will slip past the full cock hooks if sear spring tension and/or sear-hammer mating are not right? I'm still curious if you ever checked that the pistol had sufficient PRE-TRAVEL? Did you also check for hammer bounce as I posted above? IMO, if your using John's hammer sear combo it doesn't get any better. However that is subject to change is your sear and hammer pin holes are not perfectly aligned. Of course, bluing the sear nose should have already verified that..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunBugBit Posted January 29 Author Share Posted January 29 (edited) On 1/26/2024 at 10:20 AM, HOGRIDER said: I'm still curious if you ever checked that the pistol had sufficient PRE-TRAVEL? Did you also check for hammer bounce as I posted above? IMO, if your using John's hammer sear combo it doesn't get any better. However that is subject to change is your sear and hammer pin holes are not perfectly aligned. Of course, bluing the sear nose should have already verified that..... Yes it has sufficient pretravel. About 0.01” more than some of my other 1911s/2011s that do not have this issue. Hammer bounce - hmmm, try a heavier mainspring, you’re thinking? I don’t see where you mention hammer bounce, but someone else mentioned TRIGGER bounce. Edited January 29 by GunBugBit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOGRIDER Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 42 minutes ago, GunBugBit said: Yes it has sufficient pretravel. About 0.01” more than some of my other 1911s/2011s that do not have this issue. Hammer bounce - hmmm, try a heavier mainspring, you’re thinking? I don’t see where you mention hammer bounce, but someone else mentioned TRIGGER bounce. Sorry........yes I was referring to TRIGGER bounce........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHA-LEE Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 I have seen this type of failure happen on my blasters when the head of the disconnector gets worn down too far. The head of the disconnector gets worn down over time by the breach face and rib on the under side of the slide. As the head gets worn down the disconnector gets pushed down less and less to the point of it not disconnecting from the sear legs anymore. Try swapping the disconnector with a different one to see if that resolves the random hammer follow issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runswithwood1 Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 that's a stroke of pure genius there, would've never thought of that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunBugBit Posted January 30 Author Share Posted January 30 (edited) I’ve thought it could be disconnector-related, Charlie. When the trigger is held back long enough, the disconnector is stabilized - pressed back so it stays under the sear feet. So this could be why I don’t see the problem during slow fire. The problem arises when the trigger is released quickly, and just once every hundred rounds or so because maybe a particular timing window is caught by the release, and pressure coming off of the disconnector contributes somehow to the sear nose coming off the full cock hooks. The Harrison parts are new so this isn’t a wear thing. Maybe this Prodigy’s sear and hammer holes are not an ideal distance apart, even though they are apparently parallel and square enough to facilitate a creep-free trigger. Edited January 30 by GunBugBit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHA-LEE Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 For whatever its worth, I prefer the Extreme Engineering Race Disconnector. I have done a boatload of 1911/2011 trigger jobs using the EE Race Disconnector with the EGW Hard Sear, Hammer and sear spring. https://www.shootersconnectionstore.com/Browse-by-Manufacturer/Extreme-Engineering/Extreme-Race-Disconnector The crazy thing is that you don’t even realize how much the head of the disconnector has worn down until you compare the overall length to a new one. The sharpness of the 90 degree angle at the bottom of the breach face seems to be a big contributor to excessive wear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunBugBit Posted January 31 Author Share Posted January 31 Thanks Charlie! I’ll give that disconnector a try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TONY BARONE Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 1911.com has a wealth of info on 1911 trigger jobs, that site has some of the most knowledgeable smiths on it. My MCG open gun has 80,000 rounds with no follow with a one pound trigger with all original parts. You should never get hammer follow with any trigger manipulation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38super Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 Marginal triggers (well worn) can suffer inertia bounce from aluminum trigger shoes. Hammer follow indicates worn parts, 3 finger spring tweak or sear/hammer hook touch up. Just something to be aware of, keeps your score sheet out of the circular file. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yigal Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 5 hours ago, TONY BARONE said: 1911.com has a wealth of info on 1911 trigger jobs, that site has some of the most knowledgeable smiths on it. My MCG open gun has 80,000 rounds with no follow with a one pound trigger with all original parts. You should never get hammer follow with any trigger manipulation. If you use a 3-finger leaf spring, then I find it hard to believe that it saves 80k on a 1-pound trigger job, because one of the properties of a leaf spring is fatigue and power loss . Unless you use a different trigger system or strengthen the spring force from time to time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yigal Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 4 hours ago, Nile said: There is a theory that this lets air in so any smoldering ember will burn quick and go out. The counter is leaving the hammer down will suffocate a burning ember. And I thought it was because of the moon's gravity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 9 hours ago, yigal said: If you use a 3-finger leaf spring, then I find it hard to believe that it saves 80k on a 1-pound trigger job, because one of the properties of a leaf spring is fatigue and power loss . Unless you use a different trigger system or strengthen the spring force from time to time. I've got at least 80K each on two Dawson open guns with the original 3-finger leaf springs. YMMV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yigal Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 (edited) 1 hour ago, shred said: I've got at least 80K each on two Dawson open guns with the original 3-finger leaf springs. YMMV. What is your trigger weight? I built a device to test the force drop for a leaf spring. There is a direct relationship between the amount of cycles it makes and the fall that makes it unsafe. And will cause the hammer to fall or double fire during rapid fire. Edited February 1 by yigal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
392heminut Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 3 hours ago, shred said: I've got at least 80K each on two Dawson open guns with the original 3-finger leaf springs. YMMV. Same here. I don't know just how many rounds I've put through my Limited gun over the last 25 years (well over 50K), but I have never had to change or even tweak the leaf spring in any manner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TONY BARONE Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 13 hours ago, yigal said: If you use a 3-finger leaf spring, then I find it hard to believe that it saves 80k on a 1-pound trigger job, because one of the properties of a leaf spring is fatigue and power loss . Unless you use a different trigger system or strengthen the spring force from time to time. Just a Colt sear spring and never tweaked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 4 hours ago, yigal said: What is your trigger weight? I built a device to test the force drop for a leaf spring. There is a direct relationship between the amount of cycles it makes and the fall that makes it unsafe. And will cause the hammer to fall or double fire during rapid fire. Under 2lb somewhere. I care more about the feel of them than actual weight so I rarely bother to weigh them. Springs not heavily loaded can run a very long time before fatiguing. A bit of quick estimation-math says the valve springs in my truck are around 20 million cycles each and are doing fine... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yigal Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 1 hour ago, TONY BARONE said: Just a Colt sear spring and never tweaked. In the experiment I used springs without a manufacturer's name and after 50k cycles the change was a reduction from 1.75 pounds to less than 1.25 and there were hammer fall after that That's why I changed the trigger system in my gun so as not to depend on a leaf spring. The trigger on the gun was set to 630 grams and over the course of 4 years it dropped to 550 grams with no hammer fall in rapid fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yigal Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 20 minutes ago, shred said: Under 2lb somewhere. I care more about the feel of them than actual weight so I rarely bother to weigh them. Springs not heavily loaded can run a very long time before fatiguing. A bit of quick estimation-math says the valve springs in my truck are around 20 million cycles each and are doing fine... With a leaf spring set to trigger around 2 pounds there are no problems with leaf spring response and there should be no hammer fall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 3 hours ago, yigal said: With a leaf spring set to trigger around 2 pounds there are no problems with leaf spring response and there should be no hammer fall. So why would going lighter stress the spring more? If it'll run 80K rounds at 2 lbs, its exerting more force and doing more work than it would when set to 1.5 (probably closer to where my triggers are) or even 1 lb, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yigal Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 3 hours ago, shred said: So why would going lighter stress the spring more? If it'll run 80K rounds at 2 lbs, its exerting more force and doing more work than it would when set to 1.5 (probably closer to where my triggers are) or even 1 lb, right? I tried to shoot in 2011 with a trigger pull of a little more than 1 pound and it didn't suit me because I didn't feel the trigger. That's why I found that for me the best trigger for 2011 is between 1.5 and 1.25. On the other hand, in CZ I work with the trigger of 480 grams and it is comfortable for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racinready300ex Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 8 hours ago, yigal said: I tried to shoot in 2011 with a trigger pull of a little more than 1 pound and it didn't suit me because I didn't feel the trigger. That's why I found that for me the best trigger for 2011 is between 1.5 and 1.25. On the other hand, in CZ I work with the trigger of 480 grams and it is comfortable for me. That didn't really answer his question though. Why would a spring under less tension not last as long as one with more? I find it hard to imagine the sear spring really wearing out when it's barely doing anything on a light trigger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yigal Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 (edited) 2 hours ago, Racinready300ex said: That didn't really answer his question though. Why would a spring under less tension not last as long as one with more? I find it hard to imagine the sear spring really wearing out when it's barely doing anything on a light trigger. When a leaf spring is calibrated to a small force, there will be less pressure on the sear and it will not be able to respond as quickly as a spring, which operates at full force. Therefore, it is expected that the gun will fire bursts or hammer falls. These springs have almost no wear . Just fatigue of the material over time. Just fold it back a little and everything returns as it was. Edited February 2 by yigal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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