GunBugBit Posted February 19 Author Share Posted February 19 Sure, other things usually do explain it. A common complaint about the Prodigy is the slide hanging up on the disconnector. I think this is because the gap between the slide and frame is less than on some other guns. This would tend to make the slide push the hammer back a bit more than on other guns. And so the full cock hammer hooks stay a greater distance away from the sear nose while the slide cycles, giving the sear more opportunity to free-float and escape the full cock hooks when a bump happens at just the wrong time. I read a gunsmith’s description of this once but had forgot about it until now. The fix is to take down the surface where the hammer glides on the disconnector track. Not so much that the sear nose can’t catch the hammer hooks, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racinready300ex Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 How would the sear escape? There is a spring holding pressure on it. Unless the sear spring is set really light. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunBugBit Posted February 19 Author Share Posted February 19 This video shows an example of completely removing over-cock, which I would not do. I’d leave a tiny bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racinready300ex Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 Interesting,... Unrelated to trigger but I'd bet doing that makes the gun easier to "air rack" lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunBugBit Posted February 19 Author Share Posted February 19 1 minute ago, Racinready300ex said: How would the sear escape? There is a spring holding pressure on it. Unless the sear spring is set really light. I wonder the same. I know I’ve had my issue when there was plenty of sear leg leaf spring pressure. The possible explanation is that when executing fast doubles, there is a small timing window where the shooter’s finger is setting up a situation that results in the half-cock when over-cock distance is excessive. That’s all I can think of for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racinready300ex Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 I'd think when shooting fast more over cock would be better. Kind of creating a dwell time for the sear to get in place and wait for the hammer. IDK, first I've heard of over cocking. I mean I've noticed the hammer over cocks, just never thought of it as a thing that might need to be adjusted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunBugBit Posted February 19 Author Share Posted February 19 Some over-cock is normal. I don’t completely understand why excessive over-cock would be bad. Just exploring everything I can think of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunBugBit Posted February 19 Author Share Posted February 19 One downside would be more pressure from the hammer on the disconnector track, slowing the side a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunBugBit Posted February 19 Author Share Posted February 19 Another downside to excessive over-cock is the sear nose hitting the hammer hooks harder when the slide returns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOGRIDER Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 Some very professional discussion on the subject.......... https://www.1911forum.com/threads/overcocking-with-factory-sa-hammer.335636/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunBugBit Posted February 20 Author Share Posted February 20 (edited) Yep that’s one of the threads I read recently. I learned a lot over the years by reading posts from the 1911forum members pistolwrench and log man. Edited February 20 by GunBugBit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOGRIDER Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 1 hour ago, GunBugBit said: Yep that’s one of the threads I read recently. I learned a lot over the years by reading posts from the 1911forum members pistolwrench and log man. Yea, PW and the Log Man are two of the many knowledgeable I've encountered; along with the late Jerry Keefer. Many there do fully understand the 1911 platform; but I think Richard (Log) may be entering the retirement phase........ A great site to research........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHA-LEE Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 There is a lot of stuff happening super fast when the slide snaps forward which we can't even see unless super slow motion video is used. Check out the slow motion Slide Lock Drop footage from the below video. It starts at time frame 2:50. I am not promoting this video as gospel as to why you shouldn't slide lock drop a 1911/2011 style pistol. When the trigger is setup properly you should be able to slide lock drop a 1911/2011 without causing damage to the Sear/Hammer. I am referencing this video because it DOES show how the slide bounces back from the full forward position ever so slightly even when a round is being chambered. It bounces worse when there isn't a round being chambered. That abrupt "Bounce" is also being transmitted into the frame and the associated trigger components. This is what causes the nefarious "Trigger Bow Bounce" type hammer fall when a heavier Trigger Shoe/Bow is used on a really light trigger job. This slide Bounce is also depressing and releasing the disconnector. All of this is happening every time the slide snaps back forward, feeding a round or not. I am simply pointing this out because a lot of people think that the movement of the parts is a clean On/Off or Open/Closed event when the slide cycles. It is absolutely NOT happening that way. A lot of extra movement is happening every time the slide cycles when shooting. That is why Sear Spring tension and hammer hook engagement needs to be robust enough to survive the chaos happening as the slide cycles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunBugBit Posted February 29 Author Share Posted February 29 Good stuff Charlie. One thing I’m wondering is how much the recoil spring is a factor in my situation. I’m using a 9#. Before weighing some slides recently, I was pretty sure the Prodigy slide was heavier than the PM-9 slide. I weighed three slides and got these readings: PM-9: 13.5oz Prodigy: 12.7oz Nemesis: 11.1oz I use an 8# spring for the PM-9 and never have issues (after I worked out a magazine-related problem). I haven’t yet tried an 8# spring in the Prodigy, but probably will next range session. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunBugBit Posted February 29 Author Share Posted February 29 (edited) Last Saturday, I had one and only one half cock during a sixth range session in a row. I was shooting with some other people and at about 150 rounds (all good up to that point), I said, “Now I’m gonna try to induce half cock.” So I did doubles as fast as I could and sure enough, I got one to happen. This is with an Extreme Engineering disconnector in the Prodigy. Also, I had reduced over-cock to a small amount. These two changes didn’t hurt anything. I think there is a timing thing going on, and the recoil spring is the main driver of slide cycle timing, so that’s why I’m thinking about it. But I won’t be surprised if this isn’t solvable with a different spring weight. Feeding, extraction and ejection remain 100% reliable. Edited February 29 by GunBugBit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHA-LEE Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 The heavier the recoil spring the more abrupt the stop is when the slide snaps forward. The harder is slams closed the more everything moves around during that event. In my 9mm LO blasters I am using a 7lb recoil spring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
392heminut Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 10 minutes ago, CHA-LEE said: In my 9mm LO blasters I am using a 7lb recoil spring. Wish I could find a 7# spring to try in my 4.25" Prodigy. The lightest Commander length spring I can find is a 9#. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racinready300ex Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 At some point does the half cock catching the hammer bugger up the tip of the sear making slipping more likely? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOGRIDER Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 32 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said: At some point does the half cock catching the hammer bugger up the tip of the sear making slipping more likely? IMO, constant following of the hammer to a "full width/captured half cock will eventually ruin a precision cut sear face unless the hammer has this type of half cock retention: https://www.speedshooter.com/product/doug-koenig-low-mass-hammer-1911/ Regardless of hammer type, following/dropping to half cock should be addressed and repaired ASAP. It is a safety feature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunBugBit Posted March 1 Author Share Posted March 1 5 hours ago, CHA-LEE said: The heavier the recoil spring the more abrupt the stop is when the slide snaps forward. The harder is slams closed the more everything moves around during that event. In my 9mm LO blasters I am using a 7lb recoil spring. Hmm, yes, my PM-9s work great with 7# springs, which I sometimes use when shooting a slightly lighter load. It’s the slide slamming home when my finger might already have released the trigger that I wonder about. I’m not positive my finger can beat the slide cycle time, but maybe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunBugBit Posted March 1 Author Share Posted March 1 5 hours ago, 392heminut said: Wish I could find a 7# spring to try in my 4.25" Prodigy. The lightest Commander length spring I can find is a 9#. You can order government length and snip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunBugBit Posted March 1 Author Share Posted March 1 (edited) On 2/29/2024 at 6:54 PM, GunBugBit said: [ deleted duplicate post ] Edited March 2 by GunBugBit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
392heminut Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 1 hour ago, GunBugBit said: You can order government length and snip. I could, but that actually changes the spring rate! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunBugBit Posted March 2 Author Share Posted March 2 On 2/29/2024 at 7:57 PM, 392heminut said: I could, but that actually changes the spring rate! Ah ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHA-LEE Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 On 2/29/2024 at 7:57 PM, 392heminut said: I could, but that actually changes the spring rate! That is why its good to have a spring weight measurement gauge. You can likely start with a slightly heaver pound rate government length spring then cut coils off until it no longer coil binds in the reverse plug when fully compressed. Then measure the spring weight. Then continue to cut coils or portions of coils off until the desired spring weight is achieved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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