How deep to seat bullet

[Poconojoe]

Forgive me if I don't know the proper terminology. 

 

9mm, 124 grain, Berry's Hollow base, flat point, thick plate (HBFP-TP).

This is a plated bullet. It does not have any lube grooves.

 

I'm wondering what a safe seating depth would be. I want to make sure I seat the bullet deep enough. 

 

I did the plunk test with my barrel and it's plenty fine even with very little of the bullet seated into the case. It definitely needs to be seated deeper. Anyone know what an acceptable depth would be? 

I want it deep enough, but not too deep where it builds too much pressure. 

 

Thanks,

Joe

[PaleoMan]

I'm no expert, but I do four things (not in order).

 

First, I use a 9mm case gauge, as those are much more strict than many barrels.

 

Second, I do check the seating on each of the firearms that I use.

 

Third, I look at the bullet manufacture's recommendations for OAL and I check cartridges with calipers to confirm. IF you don't have manufacturer info, there are several reloading books that will have info on OAL for several bullet shapes to help some.

 

Fourth, I chrono the cartridges, using the firearm that it will be used in.

 

Hopefully you are using manufacturer's info or data books for the powder you are using to make sure that you are not exceeding recommended load. You should be building up samples starting with the minimum powder load, up to the maximum load, and then testing them with a chrono to make sure you are getting desired power factor and accuracy.

 

There's no lube or grooves involved with 9mm bullets, and not a lot of crimping either.

 

[Guy Neill]

You might look at an OAL of about 1.135". Vary from there as you see a need.

 

 

[Poconojoe]

12 minutes ago, Guy Neill said:

You might look at an OAL of about 1.135". Vary from there as you see a need. 

 

The round nose lead cast I have seem to be good at around what you suggest. I have them at 1.133. 

 

These plated ones (124 grain HBFP-TP) are flat point, so I think it needs to be shorter. I figured around 1.083. Does that sound good?

 

 

[Poconojoe]

Thanks for the responses.

 

PaleoMan: I'm having a hard time finding load data. For these flat point bullets. They are Berry's 124 grain HBFP-TP. Because they are flat point they are much shorter than a round nose, obviously. 

When I seat them, 1.083 OAL seems to be a good guess, but I wanted to get some opinions.

 

And to make matters worse, I'm trying to use up powder I have which seems to be extinct these days. I have 2 pounds of Bullseye and probably about 3 pounds of Solo 1250. Ancient stuff from what I can see!

[Poconojoe]

Thanks for the responses.

 

PaleoMan: I'm having a hard time finding load data. For these flat point bullets. They are Berry's 124 grain HBFP-TP. Because they are flat point they are much shorter than a round nose, obviously. 

When I seat them, 1.083 OAL seems to be a good guess, but I wanted to get some opinions.

 

And to make matters worse, I'm trying to use up powder I have which seems to be extinct these days. I have 2 pounds of Bullseye and probably about 3 pounds of Solo 1250. Ancient stuff from what I can see!

[Poconojoe]

With these flat point bullets loaded at an OAL of 1.083 I have 0.200 seated inside the case. Does that sound reasonable? 

 

These are hollow base, so I guess that's a plus which may help keep the pressure down...I guess.

[Poconojoe]

These Berry's bullets come in a nice plastic box. You'd think they'd put a loading chart inside the lid of the box. At least give the approximate  OAL. 

 

[Poconojoe]

These HBFP-TP bullets measure .536 in length. 

[Guy Neill]

You can load them to any length that suits you. Factory specifications show a range from 1.000" to 1.169" for OALs.

 

Many find that longer feeds better, but you don't know that the shorter length will work until you try it.

 

 Typically, use any jacketed bullet data for the weight bullet, starting low and working up. Your shorter length indicates you may need to stay with the minimum loads.

 

[Hollow-Point]

Looking under Western Load Data, the Berrys 124 HBFP is listed at 1.060”…

[4n2t0]

Always determine your own OAL, never use the OAL's listed in manuals or data.

 

You can make them any OAL that works, with min to max charge weights, as long as you're using published data. Remember, always check your barrel(s) (plunk & spin).

 

 

Edited November 16, 2023 by 4n2t0

[Poconojoe]

26 minutes ago, Hollow-Point said:

Looking under Western Load Data, the Berrys 124 HBFP is listed at 1.060”…

Thank you.

Yes, I finally found that exact measurement in my extensive searches. Finding data like this is really tough. 

[4n2t0]

Just now, Poconojoe said:

Thank you.

Yes, I finally found that exact measurement in my extensive searches. Finding data like this is really tough. 

 

That information is useless.

[Poconojoe]

1 minute ago, 4n2t0 said:

 

That information is useless.

I'm no expert here by far and I'm just getting back into reloading, but shouldn't there be a minimal accepted seating depth? It shouldn't be too deep or too shallow, no? At least have an acceptable range of depth. As I stated before at a COAL of 1.083 the bullet is seated at 0.200 depth into the case. How do I know if this is an acceptable depth? 

If these are dumb questions or I'm looking at this in the wrong way, tell me. I'm here to learn. 

[4n2t0]

21 minutes ago, Poconojoe said:

I'm no expert here by far and I'm just getting back into reloading, but shouldn't there be a minimal accepted seating depth? It shouldn't be too deep or too shallow, no? At least have an acceptable range of depth. As I stated before at a COAL of 1.083 the bullet is seated at 0.200 depth into the case. How do I know if this is an acceptable depth? 

If these are dumb questions or I'm looking at this in the wrong way, tell me. I'm here to learn. 

 

There are no dumb questions.

 

Short answer: No, there is no minimal "accepted" seating depth.

 

Long(er) nuanced answer: Obviously you should try to avoid what would clearly be ridiculous, like these:

 

 

 

Even the above .40 S&W cartridges were fired safely!, although a mallet was required to close the slide because of the extreme bulge near the base, lol.

 

So, if they plunk & spin in your barrel(s), cycle properly, and fit in the magazine you can load them as short or long as your heart desires. Again, as long as you're using published data for the powder charge weights.

Edited November 16, 2023 by 4n2t0

[Poconojoe]

17 minutes ago, 4n2t0 said:

 

There are no dumb questions.

 

Short answer: No, there is no minimal "accepted" seating depth.

 

Long(er) nuanced answer: Obviously you should try to avoid what would clearly be ridiculous, like these:

 

 

 

Even the above .40 S&W cartridges were fired safely!, although a mallet was required to close the slide because of the extreme bulge near the base, lol.

 

So, if they plunk & spin in your barrel(s), cycle properly, and fit in the magazine you can load them as short or long as your heart desires. Again, as long as you're using published data for the powder charge weights.

Thanks for being patient with me. 

Those are some crazy pictures! 

 

These bullets are hollow base, so that's a plus as far as pressure goes (I think). I am seated a bit shallow at a COAL of 1.083 vs the listed COAL of 1.060, so I shouldn't have any problems with pressure (I think). The bullet is seated in the case about 0.200, which seems to be deep enough (I think)!

 

I'm trying to keep on the low end as far as the powder goes. Then I can see how it works out and go from there. 

 

Thanks again....

[Hollow-Point]

8 hours ago, 4n2t0 said:

Always determine your own OAL, never use the OAL's listed in manuals or data.

 

You can make them any OAL that works, with min to max charge weights, as long as you're using published data. Remember, always check your barrel(s) (plunk & spin).

 

 

So if you’re using published data for charge, why wouldn’t you use the “useless data” as a place to at least start? OP had no idea. Load data seems like a “useful” place to me…

 

[Dr. Phil]

Load data is there so you have a place to start. Different books give different insights, but they are researched fully.

Some gun chambers are long, some short. I have a 6" Fusion with a really short chamber that I can't shoot 147 gr. bullets very well because the COL is 1.020 on loaded rounds. Some bullet tip profiles lend themselves to a COL of 1.100 on that gun. I also have a 1911 that is so sloppy I use it for my box of rejects due to split case mouths, etc. I have loaded for that gun at 1.165 and they run.

I load all of my 9mm with the round nose profile at the same length; Revolver, autos, PCC. All the same load (barring special purpose loads like 96 gr for steel challenge). I have 3 or4 manufacturers that I shoot and all load the same. I like simple.

As said above, start at lower charges and work up to your load, whatever it may be. Hopefully you have a chronograph or access to one.

[4n2t0]

3 hours ago, Hollow-Point said:

So if you’re using published data for charge, why wouldn’t you use the “useless data” as a place to at least start? OP had no idea. Load data seems like a “useful” place to me…

 

 

The OAL is useless because that measurement wasn't tested in your guns barrel. In fact, most OAL's in data/manuals are derived from loads shot in a universal receiver (example video below).

 

People worry too much about OAL and pressure, especially when it starts to get short, but there's no cause for concern. Always determine your own OAL (plunk and spin), make sure the rounds cycle properly and fit the magazine (usually only a problem when you're loading really long).

 

 

Edited November 17, 2023 by 4n2t0

[ltdmstr]

11 hours ago, 4n2t0 said:

You can make them any OAL that works, with min to max charge weights, as long as you're using published data. Remember, always check your barrel(s) (plunk & spin).

 

12 minutes ago, 4n2t0 said:

The OAL is useless because that measurement wasn't tested in your guns barrel. In fact, most OAL's in data/manuals are derived from loads shot in a universal receiver.

11 hours ago, 4n2t0 said:

Short answer: No, there is no minimal "accepted" seating depth.

 

This is false.  SAAMI specs for 9mm are 1.000 minimum and 1.169 max.  

[4n2t0]

 

Quote

Long(er) nuanced answer: Obviously you should try to avoid what would clearly be ridiculous

 

I don't know why I bother...

 

OP do whatever you want.

 

Cheers.
 

Edited November 17, 2023 by 4n2t0

[mmc45414]

On 11/15/2023 at 4:47 PM, Poconojoe said:

I want it deep enough, but not too deep where it builds too much pressure. 

 

19 hours ago, Poconojoe said:

I'm trying to keep on the low end as far as the powder goes. Then I can see how it works out and go from there.

 

Deeper seating DOES increase pressure, but you will be well within a safe window with a published starting charge and a 124gn bullet.  I suggest seating them deep enough that they will fit in the magazine and still plunk, then load a few and shoot them and confirm they function.

In other words, you are not anywhere near the danger zone, if you are working with a published starting charge for a jacketed bullet, pressures would be expected to be lower with a plated bullet. 

[Boomstick303]

Something that is not being discussed here is feed quality.  The same OAL is going to possibly feed different from pistol to pistol depending on where the bullet impacts the feed ramp in relation to a given OAL.  Not only should you be insuring the bullet's OAL fits the chamber of the barrel one must look at how the OAL interacts with the feed ramp.  @CHA-LEE did an rather lengthy write up on here that explains it well.

 

 

[motosapiens]

15 hours ago, Hollow-Point said:

So if you’re using published data for charge, why wouldn’t you use the “useless data” as a place to at least start? OP had no idea. Load data seems like a “useful” place to me…

 

you are correct. published load data is exactly the correct place to start. Then you can adjust up or down as needed. for example, i have some 9mm roundnose bullets that are fat, and had to shorten them to 1.06 for them to plunk in one of my guns. 

 

Generally, somewhere around 1.15-ish is about as long as I would load roundnose bullets, and probably no more than 1.10 for flat nose or hp unless i needed longer for them to feed.