Patrick Sweeney Posted December 27, 2005 Share Posted December 27, 2005 OK, I've led a pretty full life so far. I've been in several high-adrenaline sports and jobs before now. I found out I was pretty good in Tae Kwon Do, being both skilled and most importantly, I liked hitting people. I've held people at gunpoint, and would not have had any problems dropping the hammer. I've been in fights and I'm pretty sure there's a couple of woulda-been toughs who (respectively) walk with a limp and have diminished use of one hand. I'm pain-insensitive enough that it takes a root canal or a kidney stone to make my cry "ouch." So last night we hear rustling in one of our heating vents. My wife is a bit scared and annoyed, for it means mice again. Me, my heart sinks. I know what the sound means even before looking. This morning I take the sheet metal apart enough to get a flashlight and mirror in. There he is. A curled-up little field mouse, dead. With a trap holding one leg. I almost broke down and cried. The poor thing had stumbled into the trap, gotten a leg caught, and dragged it around until he expired. I'm a monster! Wait, I'm a tough guy. But the mouse I tortured all night, means I'm a monster! I slept soundly, double-monster! How do I reconcile smarts with tough, compassion with duty, the real world with civilized behavior? Or am I just reading more into this than there is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiG Lady Posted December 27, 2005 Share Posted December 27, 2005 PM at you...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
standles Posted December 27, 2005 Share Posted December 27, 2005 Would you have been so conflicted if the mouse had chewed on one of you rifle stocks. Would you have been so conflicted if the mouse had brought some disease into your home Would you have been so conflicted if the mouse had chewed some wiring and created a short that burned you house down. It was a mouse. Get over it and move on. If you must seek reperation then go to a pet store and buy a mouse to set free. Oh wait they actually are captive raised to feed pet snakes so you would be a triple monster for putting it in an environment where it stood no chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AzShooter Posted December 27, 2005 Share Posted December 27, 2005 Just remember the good points.... the second mouse got the cheese. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carinab Posted December 27, 2005 Share Posted December 27, 2005 Patrick, you have opposing thumbs - kinda' puts you at the top of the food chain. You only feel badly because of your superior powers. Just remember, most things are only cute and cuddly until they bite you or give you some awful disease. Think of it as a preemptive strike before the mouse bred and created a serious health threat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiG Lady Posted December 27, 2005 Share Posted December 27, 2005 (the overall nature of my PM to Patrick pretty much followed the tone taken by the previous posters in this thread at the moment......) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynn jones Posted December 27, 2005 Share Posted December 27, 2005 just remember, where's there's one mouse, there are more mice. you just caught the dumb one. lynn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
standles Posted December 27, 2005 Share Posted December 27, 2005 LMAO.. +1 Lynn The others are now plotting for total world domination. :0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rikarin Posted December 27, 2005 Share Posted December 27, 2005 Patrick, that means you are a one tough guy who can feel pain and suffering of helpless. I admire you for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Sweeney Posted December 27, 2005 Author Share Posted December 27, 2005 What caught me at that moment was the thought that I had created more pain and misery than was called for. I remember reading a long time ago a quote from Winston Churchill: "If you're going to kill a man, it doesn't cost you anything to be polite about it." Killing mice, ants, whatever else tries to make a living in my house, I've got no problem with. (Although those fast-moving multi-legged little things give me the willies) I just don't see where it is in any way enobling to do so except quickly, efficiently and (as much as possible) painlessly. Now, the Al Queda folks who behead hostages? I could cheerfully douse them with kerosene and set them on fire. But do that to a mouse? No way. Anyone out there with a grounding in philosophy who can shed some light on this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhgtyre Posted December 27, 2005 Share Posted December 27, 2005 What caught me at that moment was the thought that I had created more pain and misery than was called for. I remember reading a long time ago a quote from Winston Churchill: "If you're going to kill a man, it doesn't cost you anything to be polite about it." Killing mice, ants, whatever else tries to make a living in my house, I've got no problem with. (Although those fast-moving multi-legged little things give me the willies) I just don't see where it is in any way enobling to do so except quickly, efficiently and (as much as possible) painlessly. Now, the Al Queda folks who behead hostages? I could cheerfully douse them with kerosene and set them on fire. But do that to a mouse? No way. Anyone out there with a grounding in philosophy who can shed some light on this? The mouse is an innocent. The Al Queda..... Extinguishing the life of something that was merely trying to exist is a lot different than wiping out some clown who has gone out of his way to cause misery in the world. -ld Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted December 27, 2005 Share Posted December 27, 2005 Ever watch Pinky and the Brain.....about a mouse plotting World Domination....you just cautht Pinky, the dumb one... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aXXman Posted December 27, 2005 Share Posted December 27, 2005 Ever watch Pinky and the Brain.....about a mouse plotting World Domination....you just cautht Pinky, the dumb one... More than likely, Pinky accidentally caused Brain to be caught... -aXX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lndshrk Posted December 27, 2005 Share Posted December 27, 2005 A curled-up little field mouse, dead. With a trap holding one leg. That seems to be the truth, but the rest of it is simply a story you are telling yourself about how the mouse suffered. Try this reality check: THE MOUSE SUFFERED. Is it true? Can you really know that? What do you get for having that belief? Where would you be without that belief? Your business was to set the trap, it was the mouses' business to have set it off and died. End of story, [but I do get how you feel.] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Orr Posted December 27, 2005 Share Posted December 27, 2005 Please don't take this wrong but..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry White Posted December 27, 2005 Share Posted December 27, 2005 Tough world, for man or mouse. Reset the trap.-----Larry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiG Lady Posted December 28, 2005 Share Posted December 28, 2005 (Some of the text of my message...) Mice are both naturally-occurring beings but are destructive, nasty pests when allowed to run naked and amok in our dwelling spaces. Ants are natural beings too, but would you allow them to run amok and swarm your kitchen just because they might be as sentient as the mouse and you suddenly felt 'compassionate'...? We think nothing of going out and shooting deer (and other game) with weapons that, if you think about it, don't really give the animal much of a chance. But this is OK with humans. We've even licensed this activity. In fact, if we don't thin out our natural herds once in a while, we have environmental problems... so hunting is actually OK. Voles and gophers are cute little mammals, too, but can DESTROY a family truck garden and starve the humans toiling to maintain the garden. Would you NOT trap/kill the voles and gophers just because they were sentient beings...? They're destructive in the gardening context so need to be deterred. The choice is cute little voles overunning your garden and you starving, or dead voles and you with enough food to eat for a couple of seasons. It's OK to feel pangs of occasional compassion for animals--it just depends on the animal and why you encountered it and where it fits in the scheme of things. But you can't let vermin take over your home. Mice, voles, gophers, spiders and all those things can interfere with our lives. We have a right to be NOT interfered with. WE HAVE A RIGHT TO SURVIVE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFD Posted December 28, 2005 Share Posted December 28, 2005 The mouse is dead - The trap did its job. Mice are vermin, no need to feel bad. I agree with Larry; reset the trap... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caspian_45 Posted December 28, 2005 Share Posted December 28, 2005 Would a cat have caused more suffering to the mouse? My two house cats will play with a mouse until its dead. But they almost never eat one. Reset the trap, make a note to get more traps and a jar of peanut butter. Set out new traps baited with peanut butter. You will catch a lot of mice on one baitin' of PB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlamoShooter Posted December 28, 2005 Share Posted December 28, 2005 Pat It sounds like you are maturing. You shared a fealing. part of the cirlce of life is going back to the begining. some never find the inner person. Ageing learn form it or get pissed and mean. I too have scars on my body, but I never lost, and the other guy is worst off. I understand your pain. The pain is a sign that you are becoming more of a person, more depth. I bet you can understand how a pet may feal when the owner forgets to leave water out and the dog/cat goes all day with out it. Five years ago= I mite think Oh dam that was stupid, heers you water, sorry. Now ,if I forgot somthing like that it would feal like a knife stuk in me. The diferenc today for you is that someone could make fun of you for fealing and you dont wont to hurt them ,just a little,. Now you feal like you could but that would be mean. Don't worry about it though, you will be back to , ! 'Dam Rat'! ijn no time. But just wait till your eye get all watered up at your daughter's wedding Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skywalker Posted December 28, 2005 Share Posted December 28, 2005 Pat, you really wanna know what's wrong with you? It's that you don't answer PMs... No, seriously, I'd feel exactly the same way as you did. If you have a job to do (being it to bring home the grocery bag or kill a living being), you strive to do it the best and most efficient way to do it. Period. No regrets or second thoughts about it. If you feel you unnecessarily inflicted suffering to another living being, then you feel miserable because you were not up to the power that you have in your hands. There is no cure for the above: it's something that's embedded in a person's nature. Or, perhaps, there might be a cure: becoming insensitive to what happens around you and inhuman to the point that everything and everybody is a tool; but the cure might be in this case worse than the disease itself... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted December 28, 2005 Share Posted December 28, 2005 Sounds like a conflict between your real feelings (hurting a little animal makes you sad) and living up to other people's feelings/expectations (being a tough SOB is cool). I prefer the first. I'd be glad I felt that way. Life is full of these little conflicts. If I swat a fly, it's OK. If I swat a butterfly, I'm a jerk. If I spray caterpillar-repellant in my yard, it's OK. If I kill the same caterpillar as a butterfly with the same repellant, I'm a lunatic. Things don't make sense. You feel what you feel. As for the analogy with Al Queda, those people are able to behead hostages because they reason their emotions away (they let the "tough guy" win) One more reason to be happy that your compassion prevailed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hey QuicksDraw! Posted December 28, 2005 Share Posted December 28, 2005 (edited) Your humanity and compassion are confirmed. Life is hard for mouse and man. Reset the trap with a clear conscious that you have done what you must to protect health and home. Sensitive tough guy is a cool place to be. Edited December 28, 2005 by Hey QuicksDraw! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnhurd Posted December 28, 2005 Share Posted December 28, 2005 Sounds to me like you have been doubling up on the Estrogen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dajarrel Posted December 28, 2005 Share Posted December 28, 2005 Being compassionate is one of the things that define us as human. There are sub-human/sick folks that are out there that revel in others pain and suffering be it animal or human. But the ability to feel compassion, that's what seperates us from the animals. No-sir, you are not alone in your feelings. FWIW dj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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