PhotoRecon Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 Over the years 223/556 has a max length of 1.760" and my reloading manuals recommend a trim length of 1.750". OFB always seem to work with these dimensions. I've been using the 1.750" trim length since 1984. Over the past couple years we're seeing allot of 223/556 OFB left on the range and noticed some manufacturers brass is around 1.740". Even some Lake City is showing up with the 1.740". FL sizing doesn't get the length up to 1.750" nor has several firings got them up to 1.750". I'm sorting the shorter lengths out since I primarily shoot long distance and strive to keep the brass as consistent as possible. Anyone else notice the change? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonytheTiger Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 I've only been reloading since 2017 but brass at exactly 1.750 seems to be the exception, not the rule. I've seen once fired anywhere from 1.730 to 1.765 and everywhere in between. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 I’ve noticed it on many calibers, rifle and pistol. What are the dates on the short LC brass you have? I just figured it was a way that they cut costs. You know how the bean counters think sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhotoRecon Posted February 21, 2023 Author Share Posted February 21, 2023 Farmer: Mostly dates from the last 3 years. I also started finding brass marked "LC 223 REM" which I've never seen before. They are 100% short. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miranda Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 intersting... I have read the caselength grows after each firing... and no one has said how much they grow. overall, it does explain why I had cases that did not need trimming. miranda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usmc1974 Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 I am going to post here because my question is kind of a long these lines. I have been getting a lot of S&B, PSD, GFL Is this brass closer to commercials or is it military. I know when I trim all my Brass to 1.750+-.003 The powder sets completely different than it does and say my PMC brass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miranda Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 11 minutes ago, usmc1974 said: I am going to post here because my question is kind of a long these lines. I have been getting a lot of S&B, PSD, GFL Is this brass closer to commercials or is it military. I know when I trim all my Brass to 1.750+-.003 The powder sets completely different than it does and say my PMC brass LC is the only military headstamp I have seen... if you see a quartered circle, I have read that is nato... miranda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKJD Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 I get a lot of brass at work that comes from Federal and American Eagle .223 and 5.56 55 grain FMJ ammo and almost all of it is under the minimum trim length. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 8 hours ago, PhotoRecon said: Farmer: Mostly dates from the last 3 years. I also started finding brass marked "LC 223 REM" which I've never seen before. They are 100% short. That’s much newer than most of mine. I just checked some LC 93 and most were 1.748-1.760 but there were a few 1.740’s in there too. The newer stuff that I’ve found short was some Rem 708 and also WW 22-250. Were the LC 223 Rem headstamp brass crimped? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhotoRecon Posted February 22, 2023 Author Share Posted February 22, 2023 Farmer: Yes, the LC 223 REM is crimped. I'm guessing LC made it at 223 power level for some company to sell. There is no Nato mark. The brass is being discussed on other forums. They are guessing Winchester has taken over the LC plant contract. One poster claims he had that headstamp in Winchester and Browning boxes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer Posted March 1, 2023 Share Posted March 1, 2023 (edited) @PhotoRecon I had heard that Browning ammo was made by WW but always thought LC was an independent that made ammo for everyone else. I also have some brass that’s marked FC 223 and also FC with the date and some WCC with the date so everyone must take turns. Somewhere I have a chart I made over a long winter where I water measured internal volumes of 223 brass. Of course most all of the nato stuff is around .5 less vol. Well I guess it’s owned by the government and According to this Olin is still running it. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_City_Army_Ammunition_Plant Edited March 1, 2023 by Farmer Added link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HesedTech Posted March 1, 2023 Share Posted March 1, 2023 I assume posters are talking about the length after resizing. I just finished FL sizing about 1K and about 50% were longer than 1.76" and needed trimming. I FL size to make sure they run in AR platform. Trim to 1.74" I also notice about 30+% have some form of primer pocket crimp, either staking or that annoying edge which runs completely around the primer pocket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhotoRecon Posted March 1, 2023 Author Share Posted March 1, 2023 On new unfired rounds of LC Nato I'm seeing 1.756" brass or so...on recent factory new unfired FC 223 rounds brass around 1.742". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usmc1974 Posted March 2, 2023 Share Posted March 2, 2023 (edited) How often do you trim your 223 brass? And what do you use as a plus or minus For the Over all Length? Edited March 2, 2023 by usmc1974 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhotoRecon Posted March 2, 2023 Author Share Posted March 2, 2023 Since I have a Giraud machine trimming is easy. I check brass after sizing every time. I use 1.750" + or - .001" when trimming. A friend of mine doesn't crimp so he makes sure his brass is less than 1.760" otherwise he doesn't trim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer Posted March 2, 2023 Share Posted March 2, 2023 7 hours ago, PhotoRecon said: Since I have a Giraud machine trimming is easy. I check brass after sizing every time. I use 1.750" + or - .001" when trimming. A friend of mine doesn't crimp so he makes sure his brass is less than 1.760" otherwise he doesn't trim. What type of crimping die do you use, Lee Collet? Regular Roll Crimp? On my bolt gun and TC single I generally don’t crimp unless it shows an accuracy improvement. All the auto stuff gets a roll if there’s a cannalure or collet if not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhotoRecon Posted March 2, 2023 Author Share Posted March 2, 2023 I originally used a RCBS roll crimp but have switched to the Lee Collet. I only crimp with a cannelure on 55 and 62s. The 69, 75 and 80s I don't crimp at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miranda Posted March 6, 2023 Share Posted March 6, 2023 Since I have to size anyway... I lube and run them all into the trimmer... it seemed easier. miranda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m700 Posted March 15, 2023 Share Posted March 15, 2023 I hadnt noticed, I trim on press while decapping and resizing. so they all go through the trimmer(set to 1.75). Im not sure why manufactured would have shrunk. Maybe they save a grain of brass being shorter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miranda Posted March 15, 2023 Share Posted March 15, 2023 why shorter 556/223 cases... one day at the factory... the case trimmer was set a bit low and no one noticed. the cost difference for that 10 thous of brass removed is not enough to have the trim set short... If there is another case that is a little shorter those cases were re-sized into 223? other guesses are valid. perhaps a big batch was trimmed short to test a machine gun for reliability with off spec ammo. after, the special cases escaped. in this guessing, I have nothing past my imagination feeding the speculations miranda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nolan Posted March 16, 2023 Share Posted March 16, 2023 On 3/1/2023 at 1:34 PM, PhotoRecon said: On new unfired rounds of LC Nato I'm seeing 1.756" brass or so...on recent factory new unfired FC 223 rounds brass around 1.742". SAAMI spec for the .223 Remington case length is 1.760 +0/-.30 so anything between 1.730 and 1.760 is within specification. Better too short than too long. Nolan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Freeman Posted March 18, 2023 Share Posted March 18, 2023 I trim all my 223 and 223 Ackley brass back to 1.745. By the time it needs trimming again I have lost it or the neck has split. When processing 223 brass, if it is longer than 1.745 the Dillon trimmer trims it. If it is shorter than that, and almost all FC brass is, I just press on and dont sweat it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miranda Posted March 18, 2023 Share Posted March 18, 2023 Hi Tom, good advice. I'll set up to that spec. thanks. miranda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boomstick303 Posted March 18, 2023 Share Posted March 18, 2023 1 hour ago, Tom Freeman said: If it is shorter than that, and almost all FC brass is, Have you noticed any accuracy issue with shorter brass? If not I assume you do not sort shorter brass from brass trimmed to exactly 1.745? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Freeman Posted March 18, 2023 Share Posted March 18, 2023 5 hours ago, Boomstick303 said: Have you noticed any accuracy issue with shorter brass? If not I assume you do not sort shorter brass from brass trimmed to exactly 1.745? Zero accuracy difference that I can se inside 500-600 yards with my load using Hornady bullets. I sort my bolt gun brass and my precision semi-auto brass. But for most of my 223 shooting, no sorting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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