at a loss over which division to shoot...

[Makicjf]

 

After many years of primarily shooting revolver, I'm moving on to another division.  My full intent was to shoot limited.   The issue I'm seeing, at least locally, is limited participation is nearly nil.  I perused Practiscore yesterday and most matches of 60-70 shooters had no more than 3 or 4 limited shooters.  Some had 1, while one match of 72 shooters had 7.  I'm leaving a low, to no participation division:  I have no desire to shoot against myself again!   Prognostication and tea leaves seem to indicate that any non optic division is going to dwindle to L10/Revo levels if/when Limited Optics comes to pass.   I had intended to shoot Limited to minimize the pain of changing divisions, as learning a new gun; a new paradigm of attack; a new trigger and a new sighting system all at once was overwhelming to me.  If limited is going to continue trending down and only have 1-5 shooters for full matches, I'm just going to dive in, embrace my suck and learn to shoot a dot well.

   Is limited going to continue to decline?

Jason

Edited February 3, 2023 by Makicjf

[RJH]

I think it is.

 

The real question you have now is, do you do carryops or wait till the limited optics provisional division is announced or whatever they're going to do with that.

 

But yeah limited seems to be on the way out everywhere I shoot too. And it used to be by far the biggest division in my area and now it's kind of done.

 

Good luck with whatever you decide to do

[Zachjet]

My club is doing its yearly lvl 2 uspsa match   6 limited shooters as of last night 

[Boomstick303]

5 minutes ago, RJH said:

The real question you have now is, do you do carryops or wait till the limited optics provisional division is announced or whatever they're going to do with that.

 

Buy a CZ Shadow 2 to where you can run a great gun in both.

[Makicjf]

7 minutes ago, RJH said:

I think it is.

 

The real question you have now is, do you do carryops or wait till the limited optics provisional division is announced or whatever they're going to do with that.

 

But yeah limited seems to be on the way out everywhere I shoot too. And it used to be by far the biggest division in my area and now it's kind of done.

 

Good luck with whatever you decide to do

       I have a ton of 40 loaded.  I've actually picked up a ported barrel and a mag extension that gives me 25+1 for my weighted down Glock 35 I have for limited ( I found I run a glock better than a single action trigger, I can essentially run it like a revo) stuck a slide mounted dot on it and am going to hack around in open until the division questions get answered.  This will allow me to learn the dot, learn the gun and learn how to run a course with a hi-cap with no personal  expectations of success.   I actually prefer major pf, so I'm holding out a glimmer of hope  Limited Optics will actually be like *Limited* and recognize major.  I am doubtful, though, as the trend is minor is better.   

  Unless I fall in love with open and fully comp the barrel and frame mount my dot,  I'll most likley end up in whatever iteration of  LO comes to pass.   

Thanks for the well wishes!

Jason

[VeilAndrew]

I think that's a really good plan. It's almost like starting over from new again -- congratulations to the much smaller headache you'll have when creating stage plans!

[Racinready300ex]

It's funny/sad to think a revolver shooter is concerned about shooting limited due to low participation. But I get you.

 

When I decided to leave revolver behind, I looked at the divisions I considered the skills I sucked at from shooting revolver and I looked for some competition. I decided to deal with it like a bandaid and went to open. I figured shooting revolver I was slow, I didn't really need to shoot on the move or into/out of positions because the reloads are slow and constant. To do even remotely well in open and really any high cap division you really need to improve a different skill set. For me I think it was a good move, and I wish I did it sooner. But I did only shoot open for 2 years. 

 

I'm not saying go to open, just giving you a idea of the thought process I had went I moved. And I continue to think similarly when deciding what division I wanted to shoot. Another big part of it for me now is as simple as do I like the gun and want to shoot it? 

[shred]

Popularity of divisions varies a lot by club, but there's no doubt that en-masse, people like dots, people like hicap and people like low recoil, so CO is the popular new shiny (until LO comes out maybe). 

 

At the top level, Limited Major and CO Minor are pretty close in score, so that's a possible comparison too if you don't like Open.   When I shot a lot of single-stack a few years ago I'd compare against the Production shooters, although there's less of them now too.,,

 

All said and done, unless you plan to win Nationals, what you shoot ought to be mostly about what you want to shoot.

[Makicjf]

11 minutes ago, shred said:

Popularity of divisions varies a lot by club, but there's no doubt that en-masse, people like dots, people like hicap and people like low recoil, so CO is the popular new shiny (until LO comes out maybe). 

 

At the top level, Limited Major and CO Minor are pretty close in score, so that's a possible comparison too if you don't like Open.   When I shot a lot of single-stack a few years ago I'd compare against the Production shooters, although there's less of them now too.,,

 

All said and done, unless you plan to win Nationals, what you shoot ought to be mostly about what you want to shoot.

I'm on the wrong side of 50, bad hands, questionable knees and generally to slow to think about winning Nationals! : ).  However, enjoying the match, enjoying what I'm doing and learning while being able to be competitive locally is a realistic goal!   

Jason

[Makicjf]

19 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said:

It's funny/sad to think a revolver shooter is concerned about shooting limited due to low participation. But I get you.

 

When I decided to leave revolver behind, I looked at the divisions I considered the skills I sucked at from shooting revolver and I looked for some competition. I decided to deal with it like a bandaid and went to open. I figured shooting revolver I was slow, I didn't really need to shoot on the move or into/out of positions because the reloads are slow and constant. To do even remotely well in open and really any high cap division you really need to improve a different skill set. For me I think it was a good move, and I wish I did it sooner. But I did only shoot open for 2 years. 

 

I'm not saying go to open, just giving you a idea of the thought process I had went I moved. And I continue to think similarly when deciding what division I wanted to shoot. Another big part of it for me now is as simple as do I like the gun and want to shoot it? 

This is exactly my thinking...I have a lot to learn and the skills you stated to build.     

Jason 

[zzt]

I think you are well set up now.  Your have a 40sw Glock you can shoot Limited major and minor in.  I don't buy the 'I'm not competing against anyone' because there are only four Limited shooters.  I shoot against everybody.  I want to see how high up in Combined I can get.

 

Putting a slide mounted dot on it allows you to compete in CO and Open.  40 minor is much softer and quieter than 9mm.  It's what I would shoot unless I was limited to factory ammo.  You may have to change base pads if you shoot in CO.  Also, use the original unported barrel.

[Racinready300ex]

23 minutes ago, zzt said:

I think you are well set up now.  Your have a 40sw Glock you can shoot Limited major and minor in.  I don't buy the 'I'm not competing against anyone' because there are only four Limited shooters.  I shoot against everybody.  I want to see how high up in Combined I can get.

 

 

Yes and no I think. If you're shooting Limited and looking at the overall you have to ignore all the low cap shooters. You can look at CO, it's close to Limited but not the same. Did the stages favor limited a little with major scoring today? Next month if you finish worse did the stages favor CO, or was it you? Looking across divisions kind of works but with caveats. You're not really on a level playing field so it might give you a idea, but you don't really know until you go head to head with someone. 

 

Open and PCC shooters the overall shouldn't matter at all really. But those are the first guys to post their a fancy division win match footage. 

Edited February 3, 2023 by Racinready300ex

[Makicjf]

30 minutes ago, zzt said:

I think you are well set up now.  Your have a 40sw Glock you can shoot Limited major and minor in.  I don't buy the 'I'm not competing against anyone' because there are only four Limited shooters.  I shoot against everybody.  I want to see how high up in Combined I can get.

 

Putting a slide mounted dot on it allows you to compete in CO and Open.  40 minor is much softer and quieter than 9mm.  It's what I would shoot unless I was limited to factory ammo.  You may have to change base pads if you shoot in CO.  Also, use the original unported barrel.

I'm lucky enough to be able to convert both my 35 or my 22 fully (ejector, extractor, barrel and mags) to 9 or 40.  Both are also milled for optics.  I also have a ported 40 barrel for my 22 ( my carry gun).   I also have a Rock double stack with all new guts plus the  bells and whistles I can convert to 9 or 40 just by flopping slides.  I went with the glock because I really struggle to control a single action trigger. I love to tinker and make options... which makes to many options...

  The alchemy of outside division comparisons is a psuedo-science in which I have a PH'd.  Revo taught me well how to guestimate my performance.   I understand the mindset, but I want to shoot against people.  This not only allows me to compare apples to apples, but enables me to watch, engage with and learn from people who have essentially the same gear.   That is honestly the thing I want the most!

Jason

[Racinready300ex]

4 minutes ago, Makicjf said:

The alchemy of outside division comparisons is a psuedo-science in which I have a PH'd.  Revo taught me well how to guestimate my performance.   I understand the mindset, but I want to shoot against people.  This not only allows me to compare apples to apples, but enables me to watch, engage with and learn from people who have essentially the same gear.   That is honestly the thing I want the most!

Jason

 

Revo is really a whole different game, it's so hard to really compare yourself. Sure anyone you beat you were at a disadvantage too no matter their division and moving up the standings you're making gains. But apples to apples will give you so much more data. Especially now if you get the splits on PS. You can see exactly where someone got time on you and look to what skill you need to improve to get that back. But that doesn't really work if there is drastic differences in your equipment. 

[motosapiens]

26 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said:

 

Yes and no I think. If you're shooting Limited and looking at the overall you have to ignore all the low cap shooters.

At local matches I pay attention to everyone. there are locap shooters that are quite good and consistent.

 

Regarding limited.... I think right now everyone is all excited about dots, but just like the pcc wave crested and ebbed, I think the CO wave will do the same thing to a lesser degree, and I think there will more folks coming back to limited. At least I hope so.... but wutever, I enjoy both. I was shooting CO most of last year, partly because I got into nationals, but I'm back in limited this year and finding that much of what I learned in CO also applies to irons and makes me a better shooter.

[pskys2]

My best guess is open, Co and Lo will be the most popular.  Which one an individual picks will depend on expectations, ego and how much they are willing to spend.

I just refuse to give up on revolver division, I enjoy it too much, but I am also looking forward to the possibility of a grand senior type category. 67 this year.

 

Good luck to you, as long as we're moving and banging caps it's all good.

[zzt]

3 hours ago, Makicjf said:

This not only allows me to compare apples to apples, but enables me to watch, engage with and learn from people who have essentially the same gear.   That is honestly the thing I want the most!

 

Trigger issues aside, you can learn just as much by watching CO shooters and Open shooters when they don't use the big stick as you will by watching Limited shooters.  Stage planning in CO and Limited is the same.  Only the scoring is different.  Same mostly with Open.  Yes, ten shooters will approach the stage in five different ways.  That's informative.

[bravofox]

carry optics is going to be very strong until limited optics is introduced (who knows when..) by looking at the current trends in the firearms market, red dots are just getting started. it won't be long until the pistol dot market resembles the rifle dot market and becomes the de facto standard, with high quality inexpensive options

 

 

 

[shred]

OP is too polite to mention he's a GM in Revo, so I'll do it 

 

[Johnny_Chimpo]

18 hours ago, bravofox said:

carry optics is going to be very strong until limited optics is introduced

 

I doubt LO will have the same appeal of CO.  When noobs see nothing but 2011s in it they'll stick to CO.

[CC3D]

9 minutes ago, Johnny_Chimpo said:

 

I doubt LO will have the same appeal of CO.  When noobs see nothing but 2011s in it they'll stick to CO.

Disagree. I think LO will eventually be as popular if not more popular than CO in a few years if they don't merge the two divisions outright.

 

OP if you're looking to start a new division, I might hold off to see how LO turns out. High cap minor with 2011's and dots sounds like lots of fun. 

Edited February 4, 2023 by CC3D

[Racinready300ex]

Just now, CC3D said:

Disagree. I think LO will eventually be as popular if not more popular than CO in a few years if they don't merge the two divisions outright

 

That's my guess.  Why not add a magwell to your CO gun?

[Johnny_Chimpo]

4 minutes ago, CC3D said:

I think LO will eventually be as popular if not more popular than CO in a few years if they don't merge the two divisions outright.

 

What's your reasoning?

 

Merging both will destroy everything that's appealing about CO.  Most likely set USPSA back significantly.

[CC3D]

Just now, Johnny_Chimpo said:

 

What's your reasoning?

 

Merging both will destroy everything that's appealing about CO.  Most likely set USPSA back significantly.

Irrelevant to the topic of this thread. Just echoing what many others have stated to OP already- may be a good idea to see how things shake out with the new proposed division before committing to any currently existing one

[Makicjf]

2 hours ago, CC3D said:

Irrelevant to the topic of this thread. Just echoing what many others have stated to OP already- may be a good idea to see how things shake out with the new proposed division before committing to any currently existing one

That's really what I decided.  I'm going to stick with my original intent of shooting limited, but incorporate the goal of learning to manage a single action trigger after the beep .  

I'll look to dots on single action guns next year.

Thanks everyone!

Jason