usmc1974 Posted December 15, 2022 Share Posted December 15, 2022 (edited) 5 hours ago, bulldog009 said: What do you identify as a "design flaw"? Just curious. No one has yet to actually give proof of one going off without a finger or something else in the trigger. There are reports of it happening, but no actual proof beyond hearsay that I've seen. Sticking it in a holster and it going bang. The proof is there or they wouldn't have had to redeign it 2 or 3 times. They wouldn't keep asking customers To send their gun back to the factory for repairs if there wasn't designed for us. But you just keep shooting yours and believe what you want for me I think it happens more with these guns and all the other guns combined I've been shooting Glocks and Berettas for years and is never happened. You hear 10-1 of this happening with these things then you do about any other gun out there. Edited December 15, 2022 by usmc1974 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulldog009 Posted December 15, 2022 Share Posted December 15, 2022 6 minutes ago, usmc1974 said: Sticking it in a holster and it going bang. The proof is there or they wouldn't have had to redeign it 2 or 3 times. They wouldn't keep asking customers To send their gun back to the factory for repairs if there wasn't designed for us. But you just keep shooting yours and believe what you want for me I think it happens more with these guns and all the other guns combined I've been shooting Glocks and Berettas for years and is never happened. You hear 10-1 of this happening with these things then you do about any other gun out there. Have you ever heard of "Glock Leg"? This is not the first time this sort of thing has happened, it's just happening now and getting blown up because we are vastly more connected than the world was when Glocks started gaining popularity. I'd invite you to google "Glock Leg" and just read the headlines of the first several search results. The first result on mine shows this definition - “Glock Leg" is what happens when a holstered handgun accidentally discharges, wounding the carrier in the leg and/or foot. It can happen with several different pistols (except revolvers) but it happens most often with Glocks due to their infamously iffy trigger safeties. Then on just the first page of results there are reports, forum posts, articles, etc going back to 2010 with responses like -It is a reality of life that firearms will go off accidentally. Most, if not all, of the reasons this happens are due to user errors... GLOCK leg syndrome is another term for, "I couldn't keep my darn fingers outta the trigger gaurd". It's simply an operator error thing... Glock leg has been around as long as glock has. Most often it's the result of BAD gun handling and having your finger on the trigger... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usmc1974 Posted December 15, 2022 Share Posted December 15, 2022 (edited) What is it that you think I haven't heard of by now? I'm 66 years old. join the marine corps when I was 17, and been shooting guns, and IPSC since 1981 IDPA since 96. You want to shoot the sig fine shoot the Sig. On the side note I might add a Glock has never accidentally discharged when dropped ever!! Can sig say that? Edited December 15, 2022 by usmc1974 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texasdawg Posted December 15, 2022 Share Posted December 15, 2022 14 hours ago, dansedgli said: How many times have you had case ruptures with other guns? I have not had a case rupture in my P320 X5 TXG, it was in my 2011 open gun and a Tanfoglio LimPro shooting carry optics. Both times reloaded range brass. That's out of about 80K reloaded rounds,,, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texasdawg Posted December 15, 2022 Share Posted December 15, 2022 To not go down this hole too far for me, I think guns and cars are a lot alike. Both mostly made by machines nowadays and QC'd to a price point. Guns and cars are both mechanical devices and can break and malfunctions can only be minimized. The operator is always the wildcard. Insurance companies don't set prices on good drivers, they set prices on how many accidents the average person is gonna have. My experience shows me even trained people make mistakes; look at professional F1, Nascar, and MotoGP race drivers,,, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ssanders224 Posted December 15, 2022 Share Posted December 15, 2022 (edited) 15 hours ago, texasdawg said: All the people that I know of who had a case rupture were using either remanufactured ammo or were using reloaded range brass. Never have I heard of someone using new ammo have a case rupture. I have had a case ruptured and it was with range brass reloaded. YMMV,,, I also agree with that Jim fellow, the stock design of the P320 will not allow a P320 to go off by itsels,,, If you don't think there was (maybe still is) a problem with the amount of chamber support on some 320 barrels, you either don't have a broad enough view of the situation, or your head is in the sand. The commonality and similarity of the web failures seen in the 320 platform just isn't prevalent across other popular makes. Regardless of the ammunition used. It doesn't take a lot of knowledge to look at some of the barrels pictured below and notice a very surprising lack of case support. The 320 Bar-Sto barrel pictured below is how OE 320 barrels should support the round. Edited December 15, 2022 by Ssanders224 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ssanders224 Posted December 15, 2022 Share Posted December 15, 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ssanders224 Posted December 15, 2022 Share Posted December 15, 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texasdawg Posted December 15, 2022 Share Posted December 15, 2022 What do you think, Mr.Ssanders224, is this a 9 major, 9 minor, 2011, or a P320 case? With your broad view and with head firmly above the sand you should know what happened in my gun? I did not attack you personally first,,, I was making observations to the title of this thread,,, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJH Posted December 15, 2022 Share Posted December 15, 2022 Isn't there a whole nother thread on here about the huge case bulging issue with the sig 320? Seems like it was with factory ammo, or at least some of it was Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ssanders224 Posted December 15, 2022 Share Posted December 15, 2022 30 minutes ago, texasdawg said: What do you think, Mr.Ssanders224, is this a 9 major, 9 minor, 2011, or a P320 case? With your broad view and with head firmly above the sand you should know what happened in my gun? I did not attack you personally first,,, I was making observations to the title of this thread,,, I didn't attack you personally either. My statement (even if a bit crass) was a general evaluation of anyone that still denies the existence of some sub-optimal OE chambers in the 320 platform. I don't know anything about the case failure you've shown, and it's origin or cause couldn't be less relevant. Web ruptures, case head separations, etc can and do happen in all platforms with all ammunition choices. We all know that. However, an undeniable spike in their prevalence within one model of handgun is cause for analysis. But, we are rehashing old discussion at this point... and it's probably not relevant to the OP. The ability (or inability) of a gun to AD is probably a much more worthwhile discussion anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dansedgli Posted December 15, 2022 Share Posted December 15, 2022 4 hours ago, texasdawg said: What do you think, Mr.Ssanders224, is this a 9 major, 9 minor, 2011, or a P320 case? With your broad view and with head firmly above the sand you should know what happened in my gun? I did not attack you personally first,,, I was making observations to the title of this thread,,, Higher than normal pressure in a reloaded WIN case. Same as the cases my infinity would blow out when I shot 357 sig with a certain powder. Here is my small collection of P320 shenannigans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dansedgli Posted December 15, 2022 Share Posted December 15, 2022 Probably just a coincedence though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrydoc Posted December 16, 2022 Share Posted December 16, 2022 Not had 1 case issue or any other issues with the X5 that Dan used to own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usmc1974 Posted December 16, 2022 Share Posted December 16, 2022 (edited) 9 hours ago, dansedgli said: Probably just a coincedence though. WOW I never knew it was that bad. I do have a great,sig 226 but I never shoot it.. Edited December 16, 2022 by usmc1974 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dansedgli Posted December 16, 2022 Share Posted December 16, 2022 45 minutes ago, terrydoc said: Not had 1 case issue or any other issues with the X5 that Dan used to own. You also hardly ever shoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boomstick303 Posted December 16, 2022 Share Posted December 16, 2022 16 hours ago, dansedgli said: Here is my small collection of P320 shenannigans. I would be sending this gun back to Sig. Something is way off base seeing that brass. Never seen anything like that out of my Sigs. Yes the barrel is unsupported and I will get an occasional slight bulge similar to Glock bulge but nothing like that. I have also not had this sort of failure in any of my Sigs, but have seen it happen. It has been indicated to me that Sig may have made a change to the barrel where this 45 degree taper indicated by the red arrow has been removed giving the chamber a bit more support. Will this prevent any more ruptures that remains to be seen. I have yet to see this in any of these types of failures with the Barstow or KKM barrels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usmc1974 Posted December 16, 2022 Share Posted December 16, 2022 Really makes you wonder about the military having and how much trouble there having that is not being made public, And how many soldiers may have been wounded by their own Sidearm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJH Posted December 16, 2022 Share Posted December 16, 2022 19 minutes ago, usmc1974 said: Really makes you wonder about the military having and how much trouble there having that is not being made public, And how many soldiers may have been wounded by their own Sidearm. The military guns have a safety which probably alleviates some of the issues. But I do think overall the 320 is one of the worst guns there is. From bulging brass and blowing stuff up, to not working, to shooting people in the legs, to going off when dropped. It just seems like there's a lot of options that get by without any of those issues I know, there's people going to say there's is perfect and doesn't have any issues and I kind of believe them. But I wouldn't have one just for the reliability issues that I've seen fairly consistently out of them. Issues that I don't see in other guns Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boomstick303 Posted December 16, 2022 Share Posted December 16, 2022 (edited) 32 minutes ago, usmc1974 said: Really makes you wonder about the military having and how much trouble there having that is not being made public, And how many soldiers may have been wounded by their own Sidearm. Seeing how the military version was required to have an external safety probably not much if any. Also, most personnel are not issued side arms. Rifles only for the majority of grunts. Edited December 16, 2022 by Boomstick303 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Braxton1 Posted December 16, 2022 Share Posted December 16, 2022 Considering that most GI's are forced to carry in Condition Three, there's very little opportunity to have an unintended discharge of any type (human caused, mechanical failure, or design failure). I was stunned when I was teaching a class to Military Policemen in Atlanta and they told me that they have to carry like that. In their case, they were right in the middle of an urban area and really bad stuff could come upon them instantly.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usmc1974 Posted December 16, 2022 Share Posted December 16, 2022 2 hours ago, Boomstick303 said: the majority of grunts. Hey now I resemble that remark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usmc1974 Posted December 16, 2022 Share Posted December 16, 2022 1 hour ago, Braxton1 said: Considering that most GI's are forced to carry in Condition Three, there's very little opportunity to have an unintended discharge of any type (human caused, mechanical failure, or design failure). I was stunned when I was teaching a class to Military Policemen in Atlanta and they told me that they have to carry like that. In their case, they were right in the middle of an urban area and really bad stuff could come upon them instantly.... Wow things have changed since I was in. What exactly is condition 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racinready300ex Posted December 16, 2022 Share Posted December 16, 2022 14 minutes ago, usmc1974 said: Wow things have changed since I was in. What exactly is condition 3 I believe condition 3 is mag in gun empty chamber. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usmc1974 Posted December 16, 2022 Share Posted December 16, 2022 44 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said: I believe condition 3 is mag in gun empty chamber. We always refer to that is condition 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now