9mm major load with vihtavuori 3N38

[RobMarks]

Hello, 

 

I found some pages mentioning 3N38 for major loads but I couldn't find detailed load data. maybe someone can help me find a point to start from.

 

I want to load a IPSC OPEN legal major round for my SASII Shorty (4,25" barrel). So I need min 120gr bullet weight and 160 power factor. I am used to load 9 minor but not major so I need some help.

 

Usually I use Gordons Reloading Tool to find a point to start from but that just does not work on major loads for me. 

 

I am trying to get to 29.5mm (so between 1.160 and 1.165 inch) overall length with a FMJ RN projectile (LOS 123gn or H&N 125gn)

 

Maybe someone has a some loading data and tips for me to start from. I know VV fills up the case quite high. What I wanted to try was 8.6gr 3N38 with a 123gr LOS RN flat base projectile at 1.165 OAL which should get me close to 160PF.

 

Thanks,

Rob

 

[Sinister4]

http://natoreloading.com/3n38/

 

and search for older VV load books, lots of loads out there

 

Edited October 21, 2022 by Sinister4

[RobMarks]

Thanks a lot! I will take a look into that one!

[zzt]

If you are loading to 1.161" or longer, use the VV 9x21 data.  Edition 12 lists a max load of 8.2gr 3N38 under a 123gr for 1332fps out of a 5.5" barrel.  You'll need more from your short barrel.  I'd start at 8.4 and ladder up.

[Sinister4]

6 minutes ago, zzt said:

If you are loading to 1.161" or longer, use the VV 9x21 data.  Edition 12 lists a max load of 8.2gr 3N38 under a 123gr for 1332fps out of a 5.5" barrel.  You'll need more from your short barrel.  I'd start at 8.4 and ladder up.

yup I forgot that about 9x21 !!  thx 

[superdude]

12 hours ago, Sinister4 said:

 

 

 

This table originated from the link below, and it has specific information about 9 Major in a short barrel.

https://www.ssusa.org/articles/2018/1/9/how-to-use-9-major-in-a-short-barrel/

 

[Kwontanamo]

I’m surprised what this table shows. I used to shoot 3N37 for 38SC because 3N38 was so hard to find and everyone who shot 3N38 had more consistency with velocity. Very interesting. 
 

also used to shoot #7 as well. It’s a very dense powder so 8.8 will look like nothing in the brass. 

[sharko]

I tried a few powders, HS-6, Autocomp, #7, 3N37 & 3N38. I ended up using 3N37 because it gave the best accuracy and didn't fill so full as 3N38. Accuracy wise Autocomp came in second but was dirtier.

In those articles with 125gr HAP's, I have a bunch of those and they are .356, wonder if those all are. Haven't tried them for major, then didn't do that great in minor but did fantastic out of a 357Sig.

[bigboy69]

See now I think HS-6 was the cleanest and softest hitting in the hand. The 3N37 I thought had the most consistent dot movement.

[grujo]

I use for my Bulesteros vv3n38 8.6gr,123gr LOS round nose bullets,OAL 29.3mm, i have factor arround 169-170.same bullet in my wife's Bul SAS II is 175

[rpm8300]

I think 3N37 is a good choice; I liked 3N38 but it did fill the case up pretty high.  If your brass and reloading setup is perfectly dialed in, it's not an issue.  I used the spill prevention buffers in my 1050 and was able to make it work although I had to be pretty slow and deliberate compared to 3.0 grains of Titegroup for 9mm.  I could get 170-172 PF with Blue Bullets a with 0.1 or 0.2 less powder of 3N38 compared to FMJ offerings; the case is still full but that helped a little.

I've tried AA7, it is dirty and flakey so I stayed away; HS6 is a close 2nd on dirtyness.  WAC was easy and drama free but wasn't the best to shoot; honestly my backup to 3N38 was Silhouette.  It was good on gas for the comp and didn't fill the case up.

[testosterone]

i have been using 8.6 of 3n38 with and extreme 124 concave bullet, the case is basically full, i load them 1.17 so they won't chamber in my wife's cz.

these are pretty hot, at a7 chrono this weekend they were 175 pf.  

I do think this can come down and the gun might behave a little better, though doing a measurement drill(shoot 1, and just see where the dot stops) the gun is literally perfect, when I get into sub .20's there is still oscillation happening that is definetly not there when its more like a .23 split.

Roughly, anyone know how many fps .1 gets me?  with my minor loads in n320 .2 is usually around 15 fps.  I have alot of room to come down, i am perfectly comfortable running like 168 for purposes of chrono, im thinking i can come down to 8.2 and be in the ballpark.

[Janskis]

On 7/19/2023 at 5:31 PM, testosterone said:

i have been using 8.6 of 3n38 with and extreme 124 concave bullet, the case is basically full, i load them 1.17 so they won't chamber in my wife's cz.

these are pretty hot, at a7 chrono this weekend they were 175 pf.  

I do think this can come down and the gun might behave a little better, though doing a measurement drill(shoot 1, and just see where the dot stops) the gun is literally perfect, when I get into sub .20's there is still oscillation happening that is definetly not there when its more like a .23 split.

Roughly, anyone know how many fps .1 gets me?  with my minor loads in n320 .2 is usually around 15 fps.  I have alot of room to come down, i am perfectly comfortable running like 168 for purposes of chrono, im thinking i can come down to 8.2 and be in the ballpark.

I have basically the same load: Alsa 124gr FMJ RN, 8.6 grs of 3N38 from an old STI matchmaster with a 4,25" barrel but I'm getting barely an average of 163 PF.

Now I'm having a Brazos 5" barrel with TC2 cuts. Any suggestions on how much to use 3N38? Just by looking at the post above, 8.6 grs might be way too much. Just looking for a ballpark start. Maybe 8.2?

[frankge]

On 8/9/2023 at 5:14 AM, Janskis said:

I have basically the same load: Alsa 124gr FMJ RN, 8.6 grs of 3N38 from an old STI matchmaster with a 4,25" barrel but I'm getting barely an average of 163 PF.

Now I'm having a Brazos 5" barrel with TC2 cuts. Any suggestions on how much to use 3N38? Just by looking at the post above, 8.6 grs might be way too much. Just looking for a ballpark start. Maybe 8.2?

any update on the Brazos TC2 with 3N38. I just bought some 3N38 - have a STI GrandMaster with the TC2.

[frankge]

Answering my own question. 8.8gn has me at 173 PF at 1.168. 9.2gn up at 179 PF. I did the full ladder starting at 8.6 and stopped at 9.2. Using fed 200 spm there was never any pressure signs where my current 8.4 hs6 load of 175pf shows some cratering. 

Edited December 2, 2023 by frankge

[nYdGeo]

On 10/27/2022 at 5:46 PM, bigboy69 said:

See now I think HS-6 was the cleanest and softest hitting in the hand. The 3N37 I thought had the most consistent dot movement.

That makes perfect sense. HS-6 is kinda fast for an open powder and has a lot of dot movement to me, but is so soft with regards to actual recoil.  I've used N350, 3n37 and 3n38, but that was in .38 Super.  Actually preferred the N350 under those conditions as it was soft, and it produced little dot movement. 

 

I recently tried someone else's 9mm major pistol loaded with N350 and it was as soft, but had more dot movement, likely just less gas volume?  Then I fired some 9mm Major using 3n38, and was kinda stunned.  It was as flat shooting as my pistol was when I shot .38 Super.  So little dot movement! Just ordered some 3n38 to start working up my load.

 

Great info here, folks.  Thank you.

[nYdGeo]

On 7/10/2023 at 12:30 PM, rpm8300 said:

I think 3N37 is a good choice; I liked 3N38 but it did fill the case up pretty high.  If your brass and reloading setup is perfectly dialed in, it's not an issue.  I used the spill prevention buffers in my 1050 and was able to make it work although I had to be pretty slow and deliberate compared to 3.0 grains of Titegroup for 9mm.  I could get 170-172 PF with Blue Bullets a with 0.1 or 0.2 less powder of 3N38 compared to FMJ offerings; the case is still full but that helped a little.

I've tried AA7, it is dirty and flakey so I stayed away; HS6 is a close 2nd on dirtyness.  WAC was easy and drama free but wasn't the best to shoot; honestly my backup to 3N38 was Silhouette.  It was good on gas for the comp and didn't fill the case up.

Years ago, I used the original Black Bullets in my old 9x21 open gun.  They worked great, I could use a lighter load, no lead in the barrel, accurate, etc., but over time they filled the comp full of lead due to gas cutting. Do you experience this with the Blue Bullets?

 

Thank you!

[rpm8300]

On 4/2/2024 at 3:27 PM, nYdGeo said:

Years ago, I used the original Black Bullets in my old 9x21 open gun.  They worked great, I could use a lighter load, no lead in the barrel, accurate, etc., but over time they filled the comp full of lead due to gas cutting. Do you experience this with the Blue Bullets?

 

Thank you!

It will fill at a faster rate than FMJs but it wasn't a huge issue; many folks run Blues for open major.

[BrianATL]

9.4 of 3N38 with a 124/125 in a 4.5" open gun makes 169 for me

Edited April 20 by BrianATL

[Janskis]

On 8/9/2023 at 12:14 PM, Janskis said:

I have basically the same load: Alsa 124gr FMJ RN, 8.6 grs of 3N38 from an old STI matchmaster with a 4,25" barrel but I'm getting barely an average of 163 PF.

Now I'm having a Brazos 5" barrel with TC2 cuts. Any suggestions on how much to use 3N38? Just by looking at the post above, 8.6 grs might be way too much. Just looking for a ballpark start. Maybe 8.2?

8.6 grs seems to be just perfect with the above bullet at 29,6mm OAL. I'll have to double check PF but seems to be at 164 ish