Book max seems low for N320, plated 124gn 9mm.

[mpmo]

Checked a couple books and some list a max of 4.1 and some 4.2 for plated 124gn bullets.  At 4.2 I'm only getting 129 power factor.  Is the burn speed such that increasing powder is not going to give more velocity?  Not crazy about shortening OAL to get more pressure.  Any other suggestions for reaching at least 133PF?

 

 

[mpmo]

I should mention, no signs of overpressure at 4.2 in my JP5 or Shadow 2.

 

[HOGRIDER]

2 hours ago, mpmo said:

I should mention, no signs of overpressure at 4.2 in my JP5 or Shadow 2.

 

I have been to 4.4g N320 with a 124g PD JHP and had no problems through my S2 Orange.  Of course I was using a Chrono checking velocities.  This was at an OAL of 1.080".

 

Edited September 6, 2022 by HOGRIDER
sp

[HOGRIDER]

2 hours ago, mpmo said:

Checked a couple books and some list a max of 4.1 and some 4.2 for plated 124gn bullets.  At 4.2 I'm only getting 129 power factor.  Is the burn speed such that increasing powder is not going to give more velocity?  Not crazy about shortening OAL to get more pressure.  Any other suggestions for reaching at least 133PF?

 

 

BTW:

Current "max" data for N320 lists the Berry's 124g Hybrid Hollow Point Plated giving 134PF with 4.3g @ 1.126PF...........

 

And, as you know, book "max" is still on the conservative side of reality............

 

 

[rooster]

This method has worked for me over the years, but use at your own risk. Look up all the max loads for 124 gr bullets using n320 in the vhitavouri load data chart. Find the minimum max load from all the max loads. I believe it was 1066fps. You can adjust your oal, or grains of powder to reach this threshold and still be safe. This would give you 132pf.

[Miranda]

tough area to give advice...

you have to do a lot of inching up on your answer.

 

a different powder may be your best and easiest solution.

Clays may be a good powder for 115Gr 9mm and I did not like how it acted.

so I went to a different powder.

 

Should you ignore that and have a lot of powder you want to use....

My understanding of this problem is you want more powder,   buuut.

One way to get there is to make your OAL longer.

(more room for peak pressure....  without spiking. <-- that is a hard to word idea)

Look carefully over the powder specs for any surprises.

Like burns faster in hot weather or faster in cold weather...

or it has a tendency to spike the pressure near peak pressure.

all that is important. because you may be getting into

areas of pressure where you are into the safety margin.

 

 

one way to get there is to make your OAL longer.

I would test for how long does my pistol allow.

Start at less than max and test that at the longer OAL

from there add .1 grain for a test batch.

watch for over pressure signs

and when you cross into the FPS for the PF you want.

 

You are out of the book once you start lengthening.

it is usually considered that longer OAL will reduce peak pressure

and is therefore safer...

 

miranda

 

 

 

 

Edited September 6, 2022 by Miranda

[Sandbagger123]

when i tried n320 back about 10 years ago i thought it was in the same range as TG and BE  according to all the data i had read. When i tried it myself, i found out its i ahd to up it 10% over the same charge of TG to get the same velocity.    i had to push it to 4.4 with a plated to get the 135 pf with a plated 124 grain .    this load was accurate and no pressure signs 

 

i have noticed data getting more and more conservative over the years .  not sure if its liabilty or better way they measure pressure.  

[zzt]

I would not use Clays for 9mm for anything other than 80PF loads with a 105gr for PCC.

 

VV has always been notoriously conservative with their published max loads.  For example:  they list as max 4.0gr N310 under a 200 LSWC in 45 ACP.  As far as I'm concerned, that should be the starting load, performance-wise.  Wilson Combat sells that load with a 4.5gr N310 charge.  Several asked VV if that was safe and were told yes.

 

If you are nervous about loading higher than published max, switch to Alliant Sport Pistol.  It is the equivalent of N320 and there is published data for it.  

[Farmer]

9 hours ago, Sandbagger123 said:

 

i have noticed data getting more and more conservative over the years .  not sure if its liabilty or better way they measure pressure.  

It seems like it goes in cycles every so many years. Companies will work loads up to where max is actually, or a hair under MAX  with velocity’s closely matching what you get. Then some lawyers shake their fingers at them and all the loads drop a grain but the velocities stay the same.  To me this practice is much more dangerous than just giving us the facts. I believe it was the old Speer #9 manual that you better darn well start at the starting load and generally never made it half way to max. 

[Miranda]

8 hours ago, zzt said:

I would not use Clays for 9mm for anything other than 80PF loads with a 105gr for PCC.

clip...

 

Hi zzt, yeah, I don't think I'd use it for even that...

I got all sorts of or outputs from my 115gr loads. 

from that one didn't get to the target to primers that were flat.

 

I know the usual suspects, and I am pretty sure I looked into each case and

well they all looked much the same to me or I'd have re-powdered that case.

 

I looked at the info about that powder... use it for shotguns.

it is not a good pistol powder.  a little too much pressure spiking for me.

 

miranda

[Leadpilot]

The N320 of 10+ years ago was faster than the stuff they sell now, I’m wondering if the load data has been updated. That happened when clays production went from Australia to Canada.

[Farmer]

13 hours ago, Leadpilot said:

The N320 of 10+ years ago was faster than the stuff they sell now, I’m wondering if the load data has been updated. That happened when clays production went from Australia to Canada.

The density is what changed with Clays, maybe the same with VV? 

[Joe4d]

" pressure signs" might as well read  tea leaves and goat entrails....  By the time you can see anything,, you are DRASTICALLY over pressure

[Leadpilot]

9 hours ago, Farmer said:

The density is what changed with Clays, maybe the same with VV? 

Possibly. I’ve had that happen to me with PrimaV and Shooters world major pistol.

[OnePivot]

It's possible your scale is a bit off too. Good time for a cal check.

[Miranda]

6 hours ago, Joe4d said:

" pressure signs" might as well read  tea leaves and goat entrails....  By the time you can see anything,, you are DRASTICALLY over pressure

you have it.    that is pretty much how I do it.

I look at primers.  almost all are the same.   usually even with the breach.

then one looks a little different....

cup as installed or it looks like it was FLATTENED.

it will look like like the circle for the primer is a light engraving...

that last one is easy to spot.

 

I learned all this in one short test session...

pistol is fine. 

 

I am willing to risk grave harm to paper targets,

having my hand in harms way, not so much.

miranda

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Miranda]

14 minutes ago, OnePivot said:

It's possible your scale is a bit off too. Good time for a cal check.

ummm good idea  what do you recommend?

 

[Farmer]

4 hours ago, Miranda said:

ummm good idea  what do you recommend?

 

If digital it should have self check and self calibration. Or you can purchase a set of Lyman scale check weights and double check. That’ll drive ya nuts trying to get it perfect. 

[Guy Neill]

The reloading manuals, at least those I'm personally familiar with are not conservative.  All the maximum loads I hsve developed for manuals have been as close to SAAMI MAP (Maximum Average Pressure) as possible without going over.  That's not being conservative.

 

But, yes, reloading data HAS changed over the years, but not due to being conservative.  In the 1950's or so, none of the manuals (that I'm aware of) for load development.  They used case head expansion measurements - a very poor means of trying to determine pressure.