itchy Posted December 2, 2005 Share Posted December 2, 2005 Has anyone heard about the problems that LAPD is having with their G21s? I've heard that they have been having light primer hits. Anybody hear what Glock's been doing to fix this? Thanks, Itchy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clay1 Posted December 2, 2005 Share Posted December 2, 2005 Heard the same thing; haven't heard of any solutions to the questions though. Rick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Anderson Posted December 2, 2005 Share Posted December 2, 2005 The problem with light primer hits is isolated to 45's. There is a really wide range of primer hardnesses among 45 ammo. Even among the same manufacturer an individual lot can have hard primers. We got in a lot of Winchester White Box 230 gr that our Glocks had a hard time setting off. Tried a few different manufacturers guns and found the same thing. Glock does have a modified trigger bar that will set off anything. The cruciform plate on the rear is a touch longer. I don't know if it is a catalogged item or not. Glock has a habit of just changing stuff and not telling anyone. I got mine from a Glock rep that had a couple on hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warpspeed Posted December 2, 2005 Share Posted December 2, 2005 There was an article in the LA Times about it. IIRC, only happened on the range, not on duty. LAPD admitted that they use lower quality ammo for practice than on duty FWIW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric nielsen Posted December 2, 2005 Share Posted December 2, 2005 CCI Blazer in 45acp is a bear to set off. That might be the range ammo problem right there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diehli Posted December 3, 2005 Share Posted December 3, 2005 I saw the article that warpspeed is referring to, too. Glock reportedly changed the trigger bars. Why they didn't just send 'em red or blue striker springs, I don't know. What idiot armorer decided that it was the trigger bars and not the ammo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sc0 Posted December 3, 2005 Share Posted December 3, 2005 Could also be a combination of brass buildup in the firing pin channel not being cleaned out periodically? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LPatterson Posted December 3, 2005 Share Posted December 3, 2005 ScO, Glock uses a striker instead of a firing pin; firing pins are driven forward by a hammer, strikers are retracted by an internal mechanism and driven forward by a spring. I have a Glock 21 with a Vanek trigger job that sets off CCI primers every time. So maybe LAPD needs to teach their officers that even Glocks need to be cleaned once in a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Kline Posted December 3, 2005 Share Posted December 3, 2005 I think they had already checked the firing pin channels and that wasnt it. I hadnt heard Lawman's idea, but it sounds like that might be it, makes sense. Lawman, the cruciform sear plate is longer and therefore pulls the striker back further giving it more umph? The problem does seem to be only in 45 Glocks though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Anderson Posted December 3, 2005 Share Posted December 3, 2005 Yep, it's more to do with the variance in 45 ACP primers. Just ask the revolver guys. Small Pistol/Rifle primers are easier to set off, (less surface area on the primer for the force to be spread out?) That's part of the reason that Glock went with small pistol primers on the GAP round. It has nothing to do with how clean the gun is. We had it happen with several guns. It only happened with that lot of ammo and the guns still had issues after I went through and detail cleaned them. Any other ammo worked 100%. I "think" that pulling the striker back further is what creates the increase in reliabilty. I didn't have long enough with the parts to check dimensions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSGF109 Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 Its the loads not the gun ! They sure are better off with the G21 than the M-9's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jobob Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 It's both, the loads and the guns. You want your guns to fire what you're using for ammo, even if the primers are hard. Oh, and Mr. Patterson, it's a firing pin, not a striker. Glock lists it as a 'firing pin'. I call it what the factory calls it. If that doen't fit your definition you need to take it up with Gaston. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 It's both, the loads and the guns. Once again, Jobob is correct. I have the same info from a contact inside LAPD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jobob Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 As usual, Eric recognizes correctness when he sees it! Ha! I don't have any contacts in LAPD. Just my $.02, based on logic and deductive reasoning. As opposed to seductive reasoning, but that's for another forum! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LPatterson Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 Oh, and Mr. Patterson, it's a firing pin, not a striker. Glock lists it as a 'firing pin'. I call it what the factory calls it. If that doen't fit your definition you need to take it up with Gaston. Sorry, Gaston is the only one that calls it a firing pin. If you wish to order it from anyone they want to sell you a striker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirty whiteboy Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 Federal primers will cure it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtypool40 Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 this is odd to me, for a manufacturer who will make all sorts of compromises for reliability, you'd think they'd stick that "enhanced" trigger bow in there from the get go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jobob Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 Oh, and Mr. Patterson, it's a firing pin, not a striker. Glock lists it as a 'firing pin'. I call it what the factory calls it. If that doen't fit your definition you need to take it up with Gaston. Sorry, Gaston is the only one that calls it a firing pin. If you wish to order it from anyone they want to sell you a striker. Being a Glock armorer, and having ordered several firing pins, firing pin safety plungers, firing pin springs, firing pin spring cups, etc., I was wondering if I had missread the parts lists. So I checked here: http://www.topglock.com/info/partgraphic.htm and here: http://glockmeister.com/product_info.php?c...products_id=258 and here: http://glockparts.com/store/category/62nd/Firing_Pins.html and here: http://glockstore.com/pgroup_descrip/372_S...2BAssemblies%2F Sorry, I just couldn't find the word "striker". Now, the Glock firing pin may fit your definition of "striker", but apparently it does not do so for the rest of the world. I don't really care what you call it. But I do feel the need to correct you when you (incorrectly) correct someone else for use of the correct term "firing pin". Of course, I COULD be incorrect! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 Now boys... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jobob Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 Sorry Eric! Didn't want to be so 'correct', but I'm having one of my more anal retentive days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 I'll spit a lithium and a 6-pack with ya one of these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jobob Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 I may take you up on that! I can skip the lithium though. Life is much more interesting when I'm off my meds! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico567 Posted March 30, 2008 Share Posted March 30, 2008 From my experience, it's loads. More specifically, in my case, it was primers, WLP primers to be specific. While some test rounds I sent to Winchester were analyzed as not having the primers seated adequately, this is not the case. I made very certain that those rounds had properly seated primers. The punch line is that I got that lot (most of a sleeve, about 4500 primers) at a "price I couldn't refuse." I wish I'd refused it now; as with other things, there was a reason. My 1911 or my revolvers have no problem setting the same loads off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m4coyote Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 (edited) Guys, This is the exact same thing that was going on with my G20. I posted about it a short time ago, and think I have found the solution. The G20 & G21 use the same trigger bar, the 4256, and the updated one is the 4256-1. I replaced my 4256 trigger bar with the 4256-1 unit, and this partially helped the light hit problem. My G20 has had light hits with every type of 10mm ammo that I have tried. The original 4256 trigger bar not only did not pull the striker back as far as the 4256-1 before releasing it, but it also failed to consistently depress the striker safety plunger far enough. The second stage of fixing my G20 involved using the Wolff plus power 6 lb. striker spring, and replacing the stock plastic guide rod & spring with the Wolff solid steel guide rod and stock weight 17 lb. recoil spring. The 6 lb. striker spring definitely hits the primers harder, and the Wolff 17 lb spring & steel guide rod has noticeably more tension while racking the slide. With the stock recoil assembly, my slide would sometimes fail to completely return to battery after firing a shot, and very slight push would return it to battery. Without pushing the slide forward, with my G20, the trigger would still pull the striker to the rear and release it. A very experienced member of Glock Talk recommended the striker spring, and recoil assembly modifications because he was having the same problems with both of his G21's. If anyone else is having these problems, then realize that this can lead to a KB, because the gun might not be completely in battery when the next round is fired. Since the gun will sometimes fire in this condition, there is increased clearance between the case head and the barrel breech, and therefore decreases the amount of support for the cartridge during firing. Edited March 31, 2008 by m4coyote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ipscbob Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 Is the out of battery ignition due to a fit issue with whatever disconnect mechanism exists in the glock or is this inherent in the design? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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