Single Stack Division, Major Or Minor?

[38superman]

It can be.

Consider a plate rack with 6 steel and a paper target.

That's an 8 shot array.

Miss one plate and you're going to slide lock.

Miss two and welcome the the static reload club.

Wouldn't you rather face that with a couple of extra rounds?

There's no minor scoring on steel.

It either goes down or it doesn't

Tls

Well I have encountered a platerack in a match.....let's see......never. So it is a pretty remote reason to consider that as a deciding factor.

From the 2007 Tennessee Sectional

Stage 6 "Racks"

Stage_6.BMP

There were paper targets behind barricades that don't show up in the picture.

Therefore, the situation I described actually happened twice on one stage at this match

Tls

Edited February 16, 2008 by 38superman

[Rocket35]

I do realize that there are some places that use them- I am just pointing out that encountering them is remote. Not to mention that they are- more likely than not- 6 PLATE (6rd) plateracks. 11 rounds wouldn't give you anymore "cushion" than 9 in the case you are pointing out anyways......

[38superman]

Sorry Rocket,

I'm not trying to be belligerent.

I just wanted to point out that there are circumstances that where minor could be an advantage.

They may not happen all that often but they do happen.

In the example I gave you, they were, in fact, 6 plate racks with a paper target thrown in at each shooting position.

One miss and you run your gun dry.

Tls

Edited February 16, 2008 by 38superman

[Rocket35]

Sorry Rocket,

I'm not trying to be belligerent.

I just wanted to point out that there are circumstances that where minor could be an advantage.

They may not happen all that often but they do happen.

In the example I gave you, they were, in fact, 6 plate racks with a paper target thrown in.

No problem superman- not trying to be argumentative. I just don't think that it would be a wise choice to choose minor based on that example.

[Flexmoney]

...not trying to be argumentative

LOL...keep trying man...keep trying.

[buddy_fuentes]

I had an accident last year that has left me cripple and unable to run. Therefore, I am maybe a little different than others. My slow movement gives me time to shoot the "A" zones. I have been shooting in Limited and when I saw the SS division become recognized, I wanted to play.

I have a sack full of single stack pistols in .45 ACP and three in 9 mm. I recently got 5 ten round Metal-form magazines. They are 100% reliable. As you can see, I have a choice as to major or minor.

My thought is that minor would be the place for me. I have the time to make my shots count and a few extra shots if I have a miss on steel or a poorly placed shot on paper. The average shooter doesn't reload as fast as Travis Thomasee and other GM's and the time saved may help in the end.

A real fast spray and pray shooter will definitely need major and us poke through the smoke guys will be better served with minor.

Buddy

[Flexmoney]

I shot a match today that was 22 paper targets...58 poppers/plates. I'd say the paper was all 10y or closer...while there was plenty of steel in the 20y+ range. Minor didn't hurt at this match. Those extra rounds for that steel would have been an advantage for SS shooters, for sure.

I guess it depends on the match.

[Ben Stoeger]

I shot a match today that was 22 paper targets...58 poppers/plates. I'd say the paper was all 10y or closer...while there was plenty of steel in the 20y+ range. Minor didn't hurt at this match. Those extra rounds for that steel would have been an advantage for SS shooters, for sure.

This sounds like the fabled Rayners...

[waxman]

While I am not doing it for an advantage over major, I just bought a Kimber 9mm and Some Tripp mags. I am doing this for an entirely different reason that has not been mentioned before. My wife will be shooting this new pistol. I Am really hoping this new 9 will be easier on her, as fas as recoil. I watched the same thing all last year, My wife would start out shooting very well and was really enjoying herself. By the middle or end of the match, or if there were small steel targets, she would just fall apart. I watched this with much discomfort. The more I watched her, the more I noticed how the big 45 Kimber would begin to muzzle flip more as the match went on. From what I was seeing, I think she was just to fatigued to hold the gun firmly. With the money I am going to have invested in this whole new system, I hope it is the answer. There is another female at our club that shoots a SA 9, She is the one who suggested this. I believe she is a B or A shooter, and has been shooting for many years. The pistol should be here Tuesday, and her first match with it will be on Sunday, so I will let you know how it all works out.

[Neomet]

Waxman, that is why I got Ms. Neomet a 9mm. I will say she enjoys shooting much more using minor loads in an all steel gun. Hope it works out for your wife as well.

[hdgun]

i have shot SS in the last two local matches. I am using a 9mm loaded with 10 rounders. There are not that many SS shooters that shoot with us, so I have been comparing results with production shooters. Things are pretty equal ( minor scoring, 10 rounds, almost the same equipment and placing ) I normally shoot Limited but thought this SS stuff would be fun. Well I am getting my Ass handed to me by the production guys.

Maybe I am trying too hard to shoot all A s and being too slow. Should I speed up and let the chips fall where they may or just keep going the route I am on?

I feel if I change to major I am just using a crutch to mask my abilities to shoot A s fast. What do you guys think?

I will say, shooting minor is a definite eye opener.

[MichiganShootist]

Two years ago Taran Butler "went minor" quite by accident at the Single Stack Classic (which is a hell of a tough challenge) and he finished 2nd overall to TGO.

Kippi Leatham shot SS minor in the classic for years and at least 50% of the time she was HOA lady.

Depending on the shooter and the match I think SS minor is a real good alternative.... especially with tons "O" steel.

[z40acp]

Now comes another interesting question.

If you are going to shoot minor, what choice of caliber?

9mm would seem to be the obvious choice for any number of reasons.

Does anyone expect to shoot .38 super? If so, why?

Tls

Lets assume you are going to shoot minor. Just like 38superman asked, which one?

Downloaded 38 super?

Or downloaded 38 supercomp { feeds out of mags easier and might allow a little more room in mag for mag changes }.

Or 9mm? Could we do the same tricks to 9 that we do to the 40? Use the 38 super mags and load a little long. Use a medium heavy bullet { 130 grain } and fast powder.

[ChuckS]

Two years ago Taran Butler "went minor" quite by accident at the Single Stack Classic (which is a hell of a tough challenge) and he finished 2nd overall to TGO.

Kippi Leatham shot SS minor in the classic for years and at least 50% of the time she was HOA lady.

Depending on the shooter and the match I think SS minor is a real good alternative.... especially with tons "O" steel.

Actually, Taran finshed 4th. (Still a shit-hot finish) I wonder how many points he would of made up with major scoring? I think the real story is in the 2007 SSC. You have to look down to 84th place to see someone shooting minor. I have to believe that if minor was an advantage, some of the top 83 shooters would be doing it!

IMHO,

Chuck

[Carmoney]

Now comes another interesting question.

If you are going to shoot minor, what choice of caliber?

9mm would seem to be the obvious choice for any number of reasons.

Does anyone expect to shoot .38 super? If so, why?

I've decided to shoot my .38 Super at the SSC this year, mostly just for kicks as I really enjoy shooting the gun and have been shooting it pretty well lately. My Kimber runs fine with either .38 Super or .38 Supercomp brass, and I can't tell a bit of difference in any aspect of handling the ammo/mags/gun. For the SSC, I'll be shooting 150-gr. cast SWC over 3.2 grains of Titegroup, which is very pleasant to shoot and quite accurate. I shoot this load more accurately out to 50 yards than anything loaded to major power--I'm sure that's mostly because I (like most shooters) tend to shoot better with milder loads, other factors being equal. I also figure the 10-round capacity (and that's stone reliable 10-round capacity in .38 Super, unlike the new and relatively untested 10-round 9mm mags that have popped out of the woodwork lately) will be a real advantage on the "all-steel" stage which I'm sure we will see at the SSC.

However, overall I suspect the SSC will be extremely 8-round friendly again, as it has every other year. Therefore I"m not really expecting to gain an overall match advantage by shooting the Super at minor power factor, as I don't think I will save enough reloads to overcome the scoring disadvantage at this particular match. But as I said at the start--I really enjoy shooting the .38 Super with its nice mild loads, and I shoot it pretty well.

Mike

[mpolans]

Now comes another interesting question.

If you are going to shoot minor, what choice of caliber?

9mm would seem to be the obvious choice for any number of reasons.

Does anyone expect to shoot .38 super? If so, why?

Tls

Lets assume you are going to shoot minor. Just like 38superman asked, which one?

Downloaded 38 super?

Or downloaded 38 supercomp { feeds out of mags easier and might allow a little more room in mag for mag changes }.

Or 9mm? Could we do the same tricks to 9 that we do to the 40? Use the 38 super mags and load a little long. Use a medium heavy bullet { 130 grain } and fast powder.

130gr is medium heavy? I'd think 147gr would be considered medium heavy. Heck, as long as you can load long, I'd go with the old Magma-style 160gr bullets with fast powders.

[ChuckS]

However, overall I suspect the SSC will be extremely 8-round friendly again, as it has every other year.

Mike,

Rule 1.2.1 pretty much insures that a Level III match will be 8 round "friendly". Have fun and I hope you don't get rained on!

Later,

Chuck

[buddy_fuentes]

I thought (and stated in this thread) that the 10 rounds would make a difference. Well I was wrong. I'm am 62 and have a bad limp from an accident. I thought moving slow would make for better hits....apparently not.

I ran my .45 in one match and then 9mm with ten round mags for five or so matches. The first match using the SS forty-five I made mistake after mistake on my reloads. I thought I ran pretty smooth with the 9, but numbers don't lie. My performance with the major caliber (even forgetting to reload) was way above the minor.

I went back to Limited. Oh, my nine has been 100% with the 10 round mags.

I know some of you guys have the opportunity to practice many hours and I'm sure that would help some, but don't be too sure.

Good Luck, Buddy

[Gary Stevens]

Raining pretty bad today at PASA. I even gave up shooting on the staff day since it would not be much fun, if any.

Supposed to have "scattered thundershowers" tomorrow and a decent day Saturday.

You folks who picked Saturday lucked out.

Gary

[MichiganShootist]

In the five years I shot this match it rained either Friday or Saturday every year.

[Carmoney]

Shot my .38 Super yesterday at the SSC. I didn't see any other minor caliber 1911s anywhere--probably a couple around that I just didn't notice. Tom Drazy was ROing on the first stage I shot, and he immediately pointed out that the stages were designed so that shooting 10-round minor would not be an advantage--and he was definitely right!

Anyway, the gun ran perfectly, and I shot reasonably well considering that I compete in Revolver Division about 95% of the time. Had a couple problems here and there--edged a no-shoot on one stage, and didn't get a mag seated and had to do a fast tap-rack-bang on another--but nothing catastrophic.

Right now I'm listed pretty high on the results, but it's skewed because the last couple stages we shot have not yet been entered into the computer and a bunch of high-level shooters finished on higher-point stages than my squad did. But overall I'm fairly happy with my match, and enjoyed shooting my .38 Super single-stack!

[Carmoney]

The scores were updated again today, of the 149 shooters whose match is complete, my .38 Super and I are sitting 17th against a pretty salty field (including a bunch of the pros like Strader, Butler, Sevigny, Seeklander, Hobdell, Warren). Lots of shooting left today and a bunch of additional super-squadders to push me down further.

Still, I think it was a worthy experiment, and the 10-round minor concept might have done pretty decently, even at a match that was specifically designed to favor an 8-round major pistol. We'll see what the finals look like later tonight....

[Carmoney]

40th overall. Hey, I got top minor, though--should be a prize for that honor, right??

Think I'll shoot major next year....

[ChuckS]

40th overall. Hey, I got top minor, though--should be a prize for that honor, right??

Think I'll shoot major next year....

Mike,

I was curious so I did the math. Everything else being equal, you gave up 38.2836 stage points which would of got you 73.6618% and 31th place.

Later,

Chuck

[Carmoney]

I was curious so I did the math. Everything else being equal, you gave up 38.2836 stage points which would of got you 73.6618% and 31th place.

Later,

Chuck

Chuck, thanks for doing the math--I was planning to get around to that eventually. By coincidence, my best finish at the SSC was 31st (in 2006). However, I think the competition is tougher now.

Anyway, I'm pleased with my experiment--learned some things along the way, enjoyed spending the day with a great squad, saw lots of friends, and had a lot of fun at the match.