Czechmate issues

[xjwalt666]

My dads been shooting a Czechmate for the last couple years. Just recently started having an issue with it holding zero. Put the dot on paper and fire and it hits high, about 6" over the 10 ring at 35 feet. Next shot, same dot placement it hits about 6" low. Exact same dot placement hits about 12" apart. Repeats with every shot. High, low, high, low. I've checked for leading in the barrel and comp and checked for bullet strikes in the comp. Everything checks out ok. I was going to replace the cmore slideride and see if maybe it's that that is not holding zero. But I don't have a way to check for sure without a range trip which will be tomorrow. Has anyone had an experience like this either with a Czechmate or a slideride? I know he won't change to a different dot as he loves the cmore and has like 12 of them  

[BRuss]

Did he witness mark the mount screws?

[xjwalt666]

2 minutes ago, BRuss said:

Did he witness mark the mount screws?

I haven't checked that but I don't think so. I'll look at that today. 

 

[Amra86]

The optic mount might be moving. Make sure the mount screws are tight.

[JWBaldree]

I've been through this rodeo with my Czechmate. The two outside screws that hold the mount to the frame were constantly backing off, letting the mount slightly flop around. It got to the point where it start flopping like a trout on land after half a mag I tried blue locktite, red locktite, and both with locktite primer, all to no avail. I did some research, and found that red and blue aren't appropriate for screws that small, so I ordered in a couple of different flavors, don't really remember if they were green or purple. Didn't matter, because didn't work. Stumbled across another Czechmate shooter from out of town who was swearing by VC-3 thread locker. That worked, for about six months. Screws started loosening again.

 

Next step was replacing the screws, as I thought maybe the threads stretched. Didn't work. Figured I'd try getting some thread bite where I could, so I bottom tapped the rear-most blind hole and installed a longer screw. With the VC-3, that bought me another 4-6 months. We have a lot of Czechmate shooters at my home range, so I asked some more. Nobody had my problem, but all were running the CZ Custom mount, usually with DPPs or a SRO, and no complaints of loosening mount screws. I'm like your Pops in that I have a bunch of old CMores, and wanted to try and keep using them.

 

I talked with a local machinist about installing 'fatter' screws or fashioning screw locks (like a Mauser), but he suggested adding locating dowel pins to take the recoil load, much like the way mini red dots mount up. That's when I remembered that CZ Custom had two extra holes in their mount pattern. Pull up that mount on their web site, and you can print a copy of the machining template. I took that to the machinist, and that is where he located the pin holes, so if this fails I can at least buy the CZC mount and use a smaller red dot like the rest of the planet is now using. One note, I couldn't find the 2mm dowel pins in my AO, so I went up to slightly larger 3/32" pins. If I use the CZC mount, I'll have to ream those holes out for my pin size. The machinist charged me $50 for his time.

 

At this point, you want to know if it worked. I just had this done a few weeks ago, and haven't shot enough to give you a thumbs up or down. Sorry. But it's where I'm at in my screw loosening saga. Good luck with your Dad's gun.

[NorthwestGuy]

Change out the slideride for the CZ mount and see if the issue remains. OR - The Czechmate comes with a rear sight that replaces the racking bar, and the comp can be replaced with a front sight end piece. Use a rest and see if the iron sights provide tight groups, if yes, them check the side mount and C-More mounting screws. If no change, then you have a larger problem.

I had a loose side frame mounting screw, that I forgot to tighten down properly, after a deep clean. It made my groups terrible. It only takes a very slight movement at the pistol to make you very far off on target.

 

A small plate must be removed to gain access to the rear C-Mode mounting screw. VC-3 works very well. Do not use red locktite, as blue is preferred.

If all is tight, it will be the C-More. Check the screws holding down the LED module in the sight before contacting C-More.

 

The mounting system works as designed, so if you have a problem, it does not requite machining, IMHO.

Good luck. It's a great gun and the C-More pairs well for tight shots as a range pistol.

[Squirrel45]

Same, the mount on mine was moving around on mine. At first it is not noticeable and you think its 'you' then realize the whole mount is rocking back and forth. I had it loosen up on me two or three times, last time it got red locktite, that was a year ago no issues since. As for the slide / rail slide they are pretty stout at holding zero, if they moved it was my error.  

[xjwalt666]

Well I ended up taking a closer look at it. Decided for the hell of it I'll check the mount screws that he swears up and down were tight. They weren't. So I pulled the mount off, cleaned everything up and reinstalled with blue locktite for now. We both thought it was the module moving around but its nice and snug in there still. I'm thinking that if this doesn't hold now then maybe I'll just stake the screws and see how that holds up or get him to switch mounts and do the dowels. Luckily I can do the holes for the pins myself if needed. 

[shred]

Vast majority of the time impact point moving up and down every shot on a dot gun is a loose mount.  I watched Dave Dawson diagnose 3 Open guns in a row at Nationals many years ago.  It was so diagnostic he'd do a "Carnac The Magnificent" bit and hold the gun pouch up to his head and say 'scope mount loose'.

 

Get a good hold on the gun and push up and down on either end of the scope mount.  Don't be afraid to push firmly.  Mounts take way more force during firing.

 

If the scope itself is broken (elevation lock screw loose, lost or cracked-block), the impact point will move in one direction only until it runs out of travel.

[xjwalt666]

3 hours ago, shred said:

Vast majority of the time impact point moving up and down every shot on a dot gun is a loose mount.  I watched Dave Dawson diagnose 3 Open guns in a row at Nationals many years ago.  It was so diagnostic he'd do a "Carnac The Magnificent" bit and hold the gun pouch up to his head and say 'scope mount loose'.

 

Get a good hold on the gun and push up and down on either end of the scope mount.  Don't be afraid to push firmly.  Mounts take way more force during firing.

 

If the scope itself is broken (elevation lock screw loose, lost or cracked-block), the impact point will move in one direction only until it runs out of travel.

This is basically what I did.  Grabbed the gun tight and moved the dot up and down to check for flex or cracks. Noticed it moved a bit and grabbed a torx driver and the front screw spun freely as did the rear. The middle one was still tight. Planning a range day for tomorrow to see that it's fixed. 

[xjwalt666]

16 hours ago, NorthwestGuy said:

Change out the slideride for the CZ mount and see if the issue remains. OR - The Czechmate comes with a rear sight that replaces the racking bar, and the comp can be replaced with a front sight end piece. Use a rest and see if the iron sights provide tight groups, if yes, them check the side mount and C-More mounting screws. If no change, then you have a larger problem.

I had a loose side frame mounting screw, that I forgot to tighten down properly, after a deep clean. It made my groups terrible. It only takes a very slight movement at the pistol to make you very far off on target.

 

A small plate must be removed to gain access to the rear C-Mode mounting screw. VC-3 works very well. Do not use red locktite, as blue is preferred.

If all is tight, it will be the C-More. Check the screws holding down the LED module in the sight before contacting C-More.

 

The mounting system works as designed, so if you have a problem, it does not requite machining, IMHO.

Good luck. It's a great gun and the C-More pairs well for tight shots as a range pistol.

Little off topic question for you. Is that and aftermarket comp or just the factory one with the coating removed?

[DewarsH2O]

I had this issue related to a very dirty comp on the end of the gun.  Was not getting all the build up of it and it was throwing off the trajectory.  While I only shoot minor ammo, adjusted my springs so it would run with the comp installed.  Fairly new to this sport so while I thought I was getting it clean obviously not.  Was at a two day instructional class and was all over the targets when one of the more experienced shooters asked to see my gun and then showed me what the problem was.  

[xjwalt666]

1 hour ago, DewarsH2O said:

I had this issue related to a very dirty comp on the end of the gun.  Was not getting all the build up of it and it was throwing off the trajectory.  While I only shoot minor ammo, adjusted my springs so it would run with the comp installed.  Fairly new to this sport so while I thought I was getting it clean obviously not.  Was at a two day instructional class and was all over the targets when one of the more experienced shooters asked to see my gun and then showed me what the problem was.  

The comp had just been cleaned out completely and reassembled. It was doing it with the comp and the sightblock as well. 

[zdali]

Check that your mount screws are all tight. the one closest to the grip is a blind hole so it may be bottoming out instead of trorquing down on the mount. Make sure that hole is absolutely spotless before you re-install the screw. 

 

Also make sure your barrel is in one piece. Old ones have a habit of breaking the camming lug.

 

 

[NorthwestGuy]

XJWALT666,

It is a three port aluminum comp that I got from a forum member. The OEM is a steel four port.

The aluminum comp allows me to shoot 115gr FMJ range ammo without changing the recoil spring.

[yigal]

14 minutes ago, NorthwestGuy said:

XJWALT666,

It is a three port aluminum comp that I got from a forum member. The OEM is a steel four port.

The aluminum comp allows me to shoot 115gr FMJ range ammo without changing the recoil spring.

i  shoot sometimes with my TSO with 6" slm barrel and alum comp. factory 115g  ammo 14lb recoil spring .no problems.

[xjwalt666]

On 5/31/2022 at 2:57 PM, NorthwestGuy said:

XJWALT666,

It is a three port aluminum comp that I got from a forum member. The OEM is a steel four port.

The aluminum comp allows me to shoot 115gr FMJ range ammo without changing the recoil spring.

Interesting. Thanks for the info. 

[grujo]

I had similiar problem with one CM,something went wrong with comp thread,it wasn't tighten on barrel,or somene drop that gun on ground and something happened,i don't know,but i cleared threads,used liquid metal,screwed comp,then used EGW tool for compensator,after that it works perfect.in my case,bullet sometimes touches comp and goes where it wants

[Overkill66]

I had on brand new that would drop 5 1/2" at 25 yards when it got warm! did it with both barrels! Sent it back to cz, they called me and said they couln't fix it! So they found me another one and sent it to me. That one was just now a very good shooter. I retuned it and they gave me all of my money back. CZ guns are awesome I have 3, a shodow 2, two TS 2s an orange and a green ( super accurate and reliable) but the checkmate was just soooo dissapointing  to me.

[NorthwestGuy]

Overkill66,

I felt the same way. I bought a Bul Armory SAS ll UR. AMAZING pistol. Glad that I made the change. There is no comparison.

 

[mrvip27]

6 hours ago, NorthwestGuy said:

Overkill66,

I felt the same way. I bought a Bul Armory SAS ll UR. AMAZING pistol. Glad that I made the change. There is no comparison.

 

 

keep an eye for frame cracking,etc

[NorthwestGuy]

Yes, I have seen posts about major hot loads punishing the frame. Thanks for the warning.

...

I shoot 115 grain 1200 fps FMJ at the range. Recoil spring is down to 7 pounds. No competition loads for my pistol, just the enjoyment of shooting such a sweet looking and running pistol.

You don't have to compete to enjoy an open pistol.