9x25 open gun advice

[gnappi]

First off, it's not about whether the  9x25 is obsolete, impractical,  unused, or other argument against the caliber. One way or another I'll have an open 9x25 it's just the tack I take getting there. I have an RIA hi cap frame frame and R1 long slide build as well as a 4.25" slide on a single stack DW frame.

 

I started loading the 9x25 about a year ago in large part because I have well over 20k large pistol primers (with a lot more available) to "dispose" of and very few SPP's, an unlimited supply 140 and 150 grain 9mm home cast / powder coated bullets, and two 5 gallon buckets of 10mm brass with half of that already formed / fire formed to 9x25. I cast 9mm bullets for my .38 super and .357 Sigs and do not load 9mm's.

 

I find the 9x25 is a hoot to shoot and I was thinking about building an open gun in 9x25. Recently I stumbled on an open Para / Caspian build with a C-more, 8 mags, dies and lots of loaded ammo and brass. While I don't need the ammo, brass or dies the seller won't separate the package

 

So, I'm thinking a ground up or custom build would be a lot more expensive than the <$2k the seller is asking for his package.

 

Thoughts?

 

 

 

[Sarge]

Wear good ear pro! There used to be a Canadian shooter than came south for matches who shot the 9X25. It was literally a blast ROing him. I hope you get it going!

[ima45dv8]

21 minutes ago, Sarge said:

Wear good ear pro!

And please warn the RO!

[Open1215]

My only advice would be to look closely at the frame. If para or Caspian frame the mount area is a bit thin. If there is a red dot mount attached to the frame, with the pressure 9x25 generates, that would be the most common point for failure. 

[ltdmstr]

Yeah, I used to RO a guy who shot a Krebs-built 9x25 open gun back in the day.  Most unpleasant would be an understatement.  And that's coming from someone with a fair amount of time behind a 300 Win Mag.  But, if that's what you want to do, have at it.  On your specific questions, I would think twice about building on a Para or Caspian frame, both of which are cast and not known for strength and durability.  You'd be far better off with an STI-type frame for the base if you want it to last.  Also, have you shot the coated bullets in an open gun?  Seems to me the velocity and comp could pose a problem.  Just sounds to me like you're on a path that's going to end up with a bunch of money spent and a not very desirable outcome.

Edited March 21, 2022 by ltdmstr
typo

[caspian guy]

Yea you don't want to try to get a 10mm case to feed out of Caspian mags at all. Para or mbx for Para would probably be better.  As to the durability of the frame I suspect ltdmstr is right as I recall early guns based on thin dust cover frames had issues with cracking at the scope mount holes .

The 9x25 I used to shoot was based on an Sti (maybe original Tripp frame as it was that long ago) it worked fine it was just obnoxious to load for (new 10mm brass to form the cases from and gobs of powder) and obnoxious to be around. But it was certainly all the flat.

[Sarge]

1 hour ago, ima45dv8 said:

And please warn the RO!

[nhyrum]

I love my 9x25 open gun. It’s not totally done yet(inability to find primers kinda killed me) buy it is a HOOT! with the lowered power factor for major, it really tames things down, so I suspect frames would last longer then sending 90 grain bullets close to 2k fps. Really all I need is a rocker installed, maybe some slide cuts, and to figure out the occasional failure to go fully into battery I get. Still, it’s a literal blast to shoot

[gnappi]

Thanks all for the heads up on the frame. This one was built reinforced with a welded plate on the side before chrome plating it. Overall a nice job but your  points are well taken.  

 

I have been shooting coated bullets exclusively for a few years in a few 10mm's as well as compensated guns... a S&W M&P in .357 Sig, a Tanfo in Super, and a Springfield Factory comp in .40 without issues.

 

The 8 mags in this one are Para, so maybe I'd be GTG.

 

 

 

 

[Braxton1]

Your "heavy bullets" will likely be cool too. 

 

When 9X25 was "a thing", we loaded super-light bullets with a metric ton of slow powder behind them (in theory, "the perfect circle"), but the guns ended up recoiling down.  There was so much gas produced that the comp overpowered recoil and your dot would go out of the lens to the bottom.

 

Most ended up in the 115 grain range to get the dot to track straight.

[sc68cal]

2 hours ago, nhyrum said:

, so I suspect frames would last longer then sending 90 grain bullets close to 2k fps

Just be aware that USPSA open division has a minimum bullet weight of 112gr

[caspian guy]

8 minutes ago, sc68cal said:

Just be aware that USPSA open division has a minimum bullet weight of 112gr

When i ran mine I used both 115s and 124s over vit n110 and it worked quite well with both (but you have to be super careful about bullet profile the same as you do with 357 sig due to the short case neck.)

[Whitefish]

Another thing to watch out for is cracked teeth and stress fractures in the elbow just from shooting a steady diet of the gun in competition. Back in the day, I heard more than one report of this happening. Many, many years ago I had a chance to purchase one built on an STI frame with an Eotech red dot (that sight alone should tell you the era) as my first open gun for a very, very good price and ended up passing after talking to several much more experienced open shooters - decided the deal was not worth the actual mental pain from reloading for it and the potential physical pain from actually shooting it in competition. BTW - I also RO'ed a shooter with one - once and only once!!! After that, I walked away from the bay when that shooter was up.

[gnappi]

Whitefish, I don't find reloading it a chore at all

 

I usually prep a bunch of brass and load when needed.

 

Case forming

 

Lee carbide under size FL 10mm size die

RCBS .357 Sig neck size to push the  shoulder back (The Dillon size die is hard on my right arm)

 

Reloading after fire forming

 

Lee under size FL 10mm size die

Dillon neck size

Dillon powder measure to expand the neck

Dillon die seat

Dillon die crimp

 

I tried seat/crimp dies but they don't work well with powder coated bullets.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 22, 2022 by gnappi
spelling

[OpenshooterMclass4lyfe]

On 3/21/2022 at 9:01 AM, gnappi said:

First off, it's not about whether the  9x25 is obsolete, impractical,  unused, or other argument against the caliber. One way or another I'll have an open 9x25 it's just the tack I take getting there. I have an RIA hi cap frame frame and R1 long slide build as well as a 4.25" slide on a single stack DW frame.

 

I started loading the 9x25 about a year ago in large part because I have well over 20k large pistol primers (with a lot more available) to "dispose" of and very few SPP's, an unlimited supply 140 and 150 grain 9mm home cast / powder coated bullets, and two 5 gallon buckets of 10mm brass with half of that already formed / fire formed to 9x25. I cast 9mm bullets for my .38 super and .357 Sigs and do not load 9mm's.

 

I find the 9x25 is a hoot to shoot and I was thinking about building an open gun in 9x25. Recently I stumbled on an open Para / Caspian build with a C-more, 8 mags, dies and lots of loaded ammo and brass. While I don't need the ammo, brass or dies the seller won't separate the package

 

So, I'm thinking a ground up or custom build would be a lot more expensive than the <$2k the seller is asking for his package.

 

Thoughts?

 

 

 

I’m curious.  Why the 9x25?   With 38sc and 9mm major being a thing and much more readily available.     Is it because you just have the components?      I’m just trying to find what the benefits are for that caliber. 

[kneelingatlas]

21 hours ago, OpenshooterAclass4lyfe said:

I’m curious.  Why the 9x25?   With 38sc and 9mm major being a thing and much more readily available.     Is it because you just have the components?      I’m just trying to find what the benefits are for that caliber. 

 

30% more case capacity!!!

[OpenshooterMclass4lyfe]

10 minutes ago, kneelingatlas said:

 

30% more case capacity!!!

In the magazine?    More context please.  

[Sarge]

42 minutes ago, OpenshooterAclass4lyfe said:

In the magazine?    More context please.  

9mm vs 10mm

[caspian guy]

50 minutes ago, OpenshooterAclass4lyfe said:

In the magazine?    More context please.  

You can put a huge charge of really slow burning powder in the case far more than will fit in a 38 super/supercomp case as it is a 10mm auto case necked down to 9mm. It is a product of days of 175 pf open and chasing ultimate flatness.  In this day and age it doesn't really serve a purpose (other than if it makes you happy to have one) 

Edited April 9, 2022 by caspian guy

[OpenshooterMclass4lyfe]

Just now, caspian guy said:

You can put a huge charge of really slow burning powder in the case far more than will fit in a 38 super/supercomp case. It is a product of days of 175 pf open and chasing ultimate flatness.  In this day and age it doesn't really serve a purpose (other than if it makes you happy to have one) 

Okay.  That makes more sense then I other answers I was given.   Thank you.  

[Service Desk]

I shot one built on a Para frame…..it burned out comps when I used Win 296 and caused me more wrist problems than it was worth. 
The current threshold for major calibre has largely made the cartridge unremarkable. The blast from the 296 load I used would make me a pariah when I needed an RO…. It has no advantage over 38 Super….

sounds like a short barrelled 308 Win and used to destroy metal targets when I used 115gr projectiles. Hell, lead 125 grain bullets used to pockmark poppers and plates to the point that I was  warned off shooting it.

[gnappi]

On 4/10/2022 at 7:34 AM, Service Desk said:

I shot one built on a Para frame…..it burned out comps when I used Win 296 and caused me more wrist problems than it was worth. 
The current threshold for major calibre has largely made the cartridge unremarkable. The blast from the 296 load I used would make me a pariah when I needed an RO…. It has no advantage over 38 Super….

sounds like a short barrelled 308 Win and used to destroy metal targets when I used 115gr projectiles. Hell, lead 125 grain bullets used to pockmark poppers and plates to the point that I was  warned off shooting it.

 

Were the comps steel or aluminum? 

[Service Desk]

7 hours ago, gnappi said:

 

Were the comps steel or ...

Steel...I tried an alloy comp once but it cracked down the sides of the first 2 ports after about 300 rounds. The port baffles were so eroded they looked like it was a 45 not a 9 !

[gnappi]

Wowser! Still, I wouldn't call the  9x25 unremarkable.   It's a formidable cartridge for just about any purpose I can dream up. Someday I'd like to shoot a pin match with it. But pin matches disappeared too, I guess because they couldn't find pins small enough for the 9 to take off the table cleanly.