IRC Email? Did you guys get it?

[ysrracer]

If you're one of the scumbags that did this, you're a scumbag.

[MikeyScuba]

Useless post without details 

[ysrracer]

30 minutes ago, MikeyScuba said:

Useless post without details 

 

Not if you're one of the ones that got the email.

[revoman]

What is the email 

[revoman]

I can ask questions if I know the context of the message 

[ysrracer]

3 minutes ago, revoman said:

What is the email 

 

An electronic correspondence between two people, but that's not important now

 

(I joke, I joke)

 

 Some people have used the published stages to set up their own stages, and practice them.

 

ICORE has now decided this is unsportsmanlike, and are re-doing all of them, and not publishing them.

 

it's a ton of rework for them.

[revoman]

I will check into that 

Thanks 

[MWP]

42 minutes ago, ysrracer said:

 

An electronic correspondence between two people, but that's not important now

 

(I joke, I joke)

 

 Some people have used the published stages to set up their own stages, and practice them.

 

ICORE has now decided this is unsportsmanlike, and are re-doing all of them, and not publishing them.

 

it's a ton of rework for them.

Icore has every right to change the stages. I think that’s a great choice on their part if that’s what they think will add fairness to the IRC. 
 

But setting up stages, complete or partial, is called practice- not unsportsmanlike conduct. 

[alecmc]

Just wanted to chime in and state that this email is currently being discussed by the ICORE board of directors.

 

Also this email does not express the opinion or intent of the ICORE board of directors, as we knew nothing about it.

 

The assistant match director for the IRC does not speak on behalf of ICORE.

 

Thank you

Alec McMahon

North east regional director, ICORE

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 15, 2021 by alecmc

[Tolo]

Referring to the msg above by Alec ... I’m also on the Board, and this did not come from ICORE.

Melanie Chan

[ysrracer]

51 minutes ago, MWP said:

But setting up stages, complete or partial, is called practice- not unsportsmanlike conduct

 

If you want to pre shoot the stages, shoot the steel challenge.

[ysrracer]

Maybe it's time to not publish the stages before a match? I notice when I was in school the teachers didn't give us the questions before a test.

[PatJones]

Huh? Why would someone practicing a stage be a problem? My club sets up published stages at the monthly match with some regularity. Things never look the same on the ground twice. If it gets people excited to go shoot a major match, all the better 

[MWP]

15 minutes ago, ysrracer said:

 

If you want to pre shoot the stages, shoot the steel challenge.

I do shoot the steel challenge. And the stages that were released for the IRC don’t look anything like the exact dimensions in the stages of the steel challenge.
 

Releasing the stages early is completely up to the individuals running a match. Setting them up, shooting them once or 400 times isn’t against any rule book, it isn’t unsportsmanlike, and it isn’t uncommon.
 

It’s also not what’s going to be at the match, so unlike the steel challenge, it’s actually pointless to go through the headache of it and think you’re going to fair better at a match because of it. The one, and only time it should be ruled unsportsmanlike is the actual stages, at the actual range the match is taking place, by an actual competitor. This is why the people who put stages in the ground in big matches typically don’t shoot for score. 
 

Please don’t call people scumbags for something you’re clearly unfamiliar with. 

[Dr. Phil]

7 hours ago, MWP said:

I do shoot the steel challenge. And the stages that were released for the IRC don’t look anything like the exact dimensions in the stages of the steel challenge.
 

Releasing the stages early is completely up to the individuals running a match. Setting them up, shooting them once or 400 times isn’t against any rule book, it isn’t unsportsmanlike, and it isn’t uncommon.
 

It’s also not what’s going to be at the match, so unlike the steel challenge, it’s actually pointless to go through the headache of it and think you’re going to fair better at a match because of it. The one, and only time it should be ruled unsportsmanlike is the actual stages, at the actual range the match is taking place, by an actual competitor. This is why the people who put stages in the ground in big matches typically don’t shoot for score. 
 

Please don’t call people scumbags for something you’re clearly unfamiliar with. 

Great answer and great idea!

 

For those who don't:

 

 

[MikeyScuba]

Ipsc up here releases the stages for all L3’s in advance.

 

What they don’t mention is the start position.

 

 

[ysrracer]

Other than giving some people an unfair advantage, what's gained by publishing the stages in advance?

 

Again, when I was in school the teachers didn't give us the test questions in advance.

[pskys2]

Big to do about nothing.

Issues:

1) Unless exact measurements are included, it's a crap shoot on setting up an identical course.  Most times the stage diagram has to be changed "on the ground" due to angles, safety and range considerations or the deviousness of the match crew.

2) Unless it's a pre-set, measured course like the Steel Challenge or Bianchi style courses it just does very little for memory settings needed for indexing or pace of shooting.

3) Name the number of times a re-shoot has gone well?  And practicing a stage over and over tends to be a similar situation.

4) With only a very small change all of the practice you put in on a stage can easily end up setting bad memory actions into your stage plan.

 

If the IRC crew feel they have to do this, I'd give them the benefit of the doubt.

 

After decades of competition the only issues I tend to look for in major match course descriptions are the oddities.  Like a lot of WH/SH, gimick targets, extreme distance or difficult presentations, maybe odd positions and items to be handled like briefcases, ropes, handcuffs, etc...  Have seen some pretty wild gimmicks.

 

The practice I think more appropriate is the basics.  Then string those, hopefully, mastered basics into a string of actions at a match.  The novelty of that particular set of requirements tends to cause me to focus better.  One reason why re-shoots don't always go well, you can lose that focus.  Then again re-shoots are something to be practiced under match conditions, which are quite different (stress, focus, mental state) than practice.

 

But then I'm not a world class competitor and maybe at the top they can gain?

[alecmc]

23 minutes ago, ysrracer said:

Other than giving some people an unfair advantage, what's gained by publishing the stages in advance?

 

Again, when I was in school the teachers didn't give us the test questions in advance.

 

 

Listen, 

 

There isn't a single advantage of "setting up a stage" that I can think of. Be serious, these pre published stages are a step above being scribbled on a napkin with a crayon. There are no specifications of distance, positioning or obstructions. Anything somebody sets up on their own time will not reflect the actual stages one they are on the ground. 

 

Have you ever setup a steel challenge stage to practice ? I have.

 

Have you ever setup a difficult classifier to practice? I have.

 

Have you ever looked through a match book to find some difficult scenarios you might find difficult and practice? I Have

(weak hand, low ports , balance beams, etc ) 

 

Have you ever setup Far and Near before the old IRCs to practice before hand? I have.

 

Practice is NOT cheating.... Let me say it again.. PRACTICE IS NOT CHEATING.

 

Practicing is what makes a shooter a better, safer and more proficient shooter.  I encourage everybody to do so.

 

-am

 

[ysrracer]

7 minutes ago, alecmc said:

Have you ever setup a steel challenge stage to practice ? I have.

 

Have you ever setup a difficult classifier to practice? I have.

 

Have you ever looked through a match book to find some difficult scenarios you might find difficult and practice? I Have

(weak hand, low ports , balance beams, etc ) 

 

Have you ever setup Far and Near before the old IRCs to practice before hand? I have.

 

No, no, no, and no. In that order.

[ChuckS]

 

10 hours ago, alecmc said:

Just wanted to chime in and state that this email is currently being discussed by the ICORE board of directors.

 

Also this email does not express the opinion or intent of the ICORE board of directors, as we knew nothing about it.

 

The assistant match director for the IRC does not speak on behalf of ICORE.

 

Thank you

Alec McMahon

North east regional director, ICORE

 

 

 

 

 

OK, this thread is a hate rant masquerading as a discussion therefore closed. If anyone needs to post factual information about this match, let me know and I will open it back up for such posting.