More Matches Vs Practice

[MCGILLA]

I am a newer shooter (D Class) and on my sixth or so match. The match yesterday I started to decline measurably from the others. I have been so excited I have shot a match almost every weekend. My question is do you find continuing your volume of local matches productive? Or should you plan out maybe two a month and work dry practice and live practice the other weekends? I don’t have time to be at the range except for weekends, so I’m curious how beneficial it is to say “shoot” all the matches you can for the experience. My main thing is I am bit by the bug and really enjoy shooting all the matches I can but wonder if that is counterproductive to improving. 

Thanks for the help 

[Boomstick303]

What are you goals? Have defined goals and that should direct you to the correct answer. If you are shooting for fun and do not care about outcome then shoot matches. Many in USPSA do just that. They practice little to no dry fire, or live fire drills and shoot only matches. If you truly want to progress quickly then dry fire drills, then confirmed by live fire drills (practice) is required. For the majority of locals I attend my results are a product of my level of participation. And by level of participation I mean practice. The commitment to truly get better requires these things. 

 

In the beginning it's good to go to as many matches as you can to understand how the game works and get an idea of some of what your weak areas are. After that it's up to you to decide what you want to be in regards to skill level and what level you want to compete. Many find competing with others in their same classification is enough. Others want more, and more requires work.  Maybe alternate weekends. Dry fire does not require you go to the range just the time to do it at home. It. Is best to confirm your dry fire training with live fire training. 

 

If you are going to dump tons of time in dry fire I would recommend books, you tube videos, web sites for study material from the likes of Ben Stoeger and/or Steve Anderson or someone of that caliber. Dry fire training performed incorrectly will only hurt not help. 

[SGT_Schultz]

1 hour ago, Boomstick303 said:

What are you goals? Have defined goals and that should direct you to the correct answer. If you are shooting for fun and do not care about outcome then shoot matches. Many in USPSA do just that. They practice little to no dry fire, or live fire drills and shoot only matches. If you truly want to progress quickly then dry fire drills, then confirmed by live fire drills (practice) is required. For the majority of locals I attend my results are a product of my level of participation. And by level of participation I mean practice. The commitment to truly get better requires these things. 

 

In the beginning it's good to go to as many matches as you can to understand how the game works and get an idea of some of what your weak areas are. After that it's up to you to decide what you want to be in regards to skill level and what level you want to compete. Many find competing with others in their same classification is enough. Others want more, and more requires work.  Maybe alternate weekends. Dry fire does not require you go to the range just the time to do it at home. It. Is best to confirm your dry fire training with live fire training. 

 

If you are going to dump tons of time in dry fire I would recommend books, you tube videos, web sites for study material from the likes of Ben Stoeger and/or Steve Anderson or someone of that caliber. Dry fire training performed incorrectly will only hurt not help. 

 

/thread

[SGT_Schultz]

1 hour ago, MCGILLA said:

I am a newer shooter (D Class) and on my sixth or so match.

 

I only have one thing to add to @Boomstick303 excellent reply.

 

Every D class and many lower C class shooters I've seen have rather atrocious marksmanship fundamentals.  Their grip is a disaster, they close/squint one eye to aim, they tend to slap the hell out of the trigger (sometimes preceded by pinning the trigger back through recoil), and some bring really bad habits like hunching down to see the sights and locking their elbows instead of keeping their head erect, bringing the pistol up to eye line, and relaxing the shoulders and elbows.

 

If most of that describes you, I would suggest getting some training to fix it.

Edited August 8, 2021 by SGT_Schultz

[StefVanHauwe]

I strongly recommend you buy and read Ben Stoeger's most recent practical shooting book, which provides a road map to improve, depending on the staring level. In addition I suggest you buy and read Steve Anderson's 3 books. Dry fire can significantly improve fundamental skills.

[SGT_Schultz]

3 hours ago, StefVanHauwe said:

 Dry fire can significantly improve fundamental skills.

 

I agree, if you know what correct looks and feels like.

 

If you don't, then it's a waste of time.

[Kokeman]

I am the same as I can only shoot on weekends. Instead of shooting matches every weekend maybe use one weekend to practice. Do draws and transition drills. Something that has helped me a lot is a met some great guys and shoot with them at most matches. Getting tips from them on stage plans and techniques has done more for my improvements than anything else. 

[MCGILLA]

Thanks, all great information. I recently picked up Steve Anderson’s books and will go the Dry Fire and confirm by practice method. I just got hooked really fast, but I don’t want to get caught in the excitement and miss the improvement part. I will take the advice as mentioned above and select a match to attend after putting in some extra work. I agree in that purely shooting matches will not gain me the growth I’m looking for. 

[ima45dv8]

7 hours ago, MCGILLA said:

Thanks, all great information. I recently picked up Steve Anderson’s books and will go the Dry Fire and confirm by practice method. I just got hooked really fast, but I don’t want to get caught in the excitement and miss the improvement part. I will take the advice as mentioned above and select a match to attend after putting in some extra work. I agree in that purely shooting matches will not gain me the growth I’m looking for. 

That sounds like a wise choice.

 

When I started shooting USPSA matches, I thought just shooting a lot of matches would get me where I wanted to go (somewhere higher in the results). Only shooting matches is not a replacement for practice. At best, it's a confirmation of the lack of it. 

 

*If getting to the range is a problem, like it is for most of us, then dry-fire practice is your friend. When you're starting, the returns on investment are way beyond live fire. Both are critical but dry-fire can produce big results in a short period of time. 

 

*Don't overlook looking closely at the rules for USPSA, especially Competitor Equipment (Chapter 5) and DQ's (Chapter 10). Educated, informed (rules-savvy)  competitors have an edge. 

 

*I was taught that if you give an RO a reason, ANY reason to doubt your gun-handling skills, you've already lost. There's an unwritten rule in USPSA that says, "Don't Scare The RO!" Get your gun handling skills in order first. Being involved in scaring an RO means getting attention you didn't really do not want. 

 

***Once you're beyond that whole scaring he RO thing. . .have fun!  You might sometime select a route that makes an RO's bloodrate rise, but that's ultimately on him/her for not anticipating your move. Just be aware, same as those ROs try to be, and be ready to be caught off guard at some point.

 

Stay safe...

 

[StefVanHauwe]

9 hours ago, MCGILLA said:

Thanks, all great information. I recently picked up Steve Anderson’s books and will go the Dry Fire and confirm by practice method. I just got hooked really fast, but I don’t want to get caught in the excitement and miss the improvement part. I will take the advice as mentioned above and select a match to attend after putting in some extra work. I agree in that purely shooting matches will not gain me the growth I’m looking for. 

Shooting matches will grow your mental strength, stage planning skill and social network. Training in dry and live fire sessions, matches to benchmark level and built on to evolve in future trainings.

[MCGILLA]

2 hours ago, ima45dv8 said:

That sounds like a wise choice.

 

When I started shooting USPSA matches, I thought just shooting a lot of matches would get me where I wanted to go (somewhere higher in the results). Only shooting matches is not a replacement for practice. At best, it's a confirmation of the lack of it. 

 

*If getting to the range is a problem, like it is for most of us, then dry-fire practice is your friend. When you're starting, the returns on investment are way beyond live fire. Both are critical but dry-fire can produce big results in a short period of time. 

 

*Don't overlook looking closely at the rules for USPSA, especially Competitor Equipment (Chapter 5) and DQ's (Chapter 10). Educated, informed (rules-savvy)  competitors have an edge. 

 

*I was taught that if you give an RO a reason, ANY reason to doubt your gun-handling skills, you've already lost. There's an unwritten rule in USPSA that says, "Don't Scare The RO!" Get your gun handling skills in order first. Being involved in scaring an RO means getting attention you didn't really do not want. 

 

***Once you're beyond that whole scaring he RO thing. . .have fun!  You might sometime select a route that makes an RO's bloodrate rise, but that's ultimately on him/her for not anticipating your move. Just be aware, same as those ROs try to be, and be ready to be caught off guard at some point.

 

Stay safe...

 

Thanks for that addition. After only a few matches I have gotten really excited about this. I’ve been with a really friendly group of people. I think the one thing and Steve Anderson has mentioned it on the podcast is a ton of advice. I have found one guy shooting M, that I listen too I have found that more helpful than everyone sort of throwing their guidance at the new guy. I do get the fact they are trying to be helpful, but right now the focus from every match for me is one takeaway that I can work on not 35  

[Boomstick303]

One word on Dry fire.  Hold the pistol like you are supposed to during dry fire training.  If you cannot grip the pistol correctly in dry fire training I would stop training for that session.  The human brain can only concentrate on one conscious thought at a time.  Shooting fundamentals are a group of fundamentals put together to shoot an accurate shot.  Grip should become so engrained that you do not have to consciously think about it during your course of fire.  If you dry fire with a sub par grip the brain then thinks it is acceptable to hold the pistol in this manner during live fire.  To me grip is the most important fundamental of shooting accurately.  I wish I would have known this when I started dry fire training.  I would be further along in my progress.  

 

[lgh]

54 minutes ago, Boomstick303 said:

To me grip is the most important fundamental of shooting accurately. 

Grip plus trigger pull. Screw up either/both of these two things and you're hosed.

[broadside72]

Shoot steel challenge when you don't have a USPSA match. Its live fire practice, offers a lot more draws than a typical USPSA match, transition practice, emphasizes sight picture, etc. 

[Boomstick303]

33 minutes ago, lgh said:

Grip plus trigger pull. Screw up either/both of these two things and you're hosed.

 

I would argue a great grip can make up for semi crappy trigger pull, especially when slapping the trigger for close blasting targets.  Let us face it, when slapping the trigger you are not by practice following correct trigger pull bio mechanics for super accurate shooting.   But yes both are immensely important for accurate shots at distance, which is a part of the sport.  It is up to the shooter to know when they need to use the appropriate trigger press discipline.  

[lgh]

20 hours ago, Boomstick303 said:

I would argue a great grip can make up for semi crappy trigger pull

Agree. At least it does for me.

[ksullivan16]

On 8/9/2021 at 12:42 PM, broadside72 said:

Shoot steel challenge when you don't have a USPSA match. Its live fire practice, offers a lot more draws than a typical USPSA match, transition practice, emphasizes sight picture, etc. 

I second shooting SC when no USPSA matches are on. I had a bit of a breakthrough moment during a Steel match today, where I felt like I was aware of my front sight the way I am aware of my muzzle - precisely knowing where it pointed at even when I do not see it. I was completely target focused, but I knew where my front sight was. Even when I lost sight of the blurry front post, I spatially knew where it was. Finished 6/50 or so people, and first time shooting a 75%. Different disciplines can give a different and much needed perspective.

[Doge]

I'll use local matches to try out different theories sometimes and also ensure my dryfire is honest. Biggest thing is to let go of your ego and focus on the process. 

[Guy Neill]

Matches are not practice.  Practice to build skills.  Matches serve to test those skills.

 

Matches have enough other presure to mask mistakes and do not allow analysis of any problems.

[chrisrdba]

New guy here. Nothing to add, just want to follow along.

[X5SigChris]

Good morning. When I started shooting Limited years ago, I never practiced. My matches were my practice. I still had a blast but I never got any better. I was actually just watching some old videos and everything is just wrong. Posture, sight picture, my movements, all of it. Now getting back into it, I’m going to practice much more. Just my two cents but I hope it helps give some perspective. Best wishes 

[HueyChief33]

The match is the test.  Studying for the test is practice. Take notes after every match you shoot on what you did well, and what you did not.  That will help you focus your practice efforts and time, and make maximum use of your practice ammo.  And never underestimate the power of focused, concentrated dry fire practice.  Don't over do it with the dry fire, I'd say MAX 15 minutes a session, no more than 2 sessions a day.  1 session will do just fine though.  You can work on everything but recoil management and sight tracking in dry-fire, and you can do it at home.  I have a dry-fire routine, much like fitness buffs have a work out plan, and found it has worked well for me.  As I identify weak areas, I focus on them a bit more in dry-fire and practice, but continue to polish those other skills.  A trap I have seen a lot of guys fall in to is practicing what they are already good at, because it feels good to crush it.  Don't fall into that trap.  Practice what you suck at, and finish up with a drill you are good at or a certain skill you are good at to end on a good, confident note.  If you practice the most what you suck at the most, you will improve much faster.  Good luck, I hope that helps!

[P.E. Kelley]

On 8/8/2021 at 7:38 AM, Boomstick303 said:

What are you goals? Have defined goals and that should direct you to the correct answer. If you are shooting for fun and do not care about outcome then shoot matches. Many in USPSA do just that. They practice little to no dry fire, or live fire drills and shoot only matches. If you truly want to progress quickly then dry fire drills, then confirmed by live fire drills (practice) is required. For the majority of locals I attend my results are a product of my level of participation. And by level of participation I mean practice. The commitment to truly get better requires these things. 

 

In the beginning it's good to go to as many matches as you can to understand how the game works and get an idea of some of what your weak areas are. After that it's up to you to decide what you want to be in regards to skill level and what level you want to compete. Many find competing with others in their same classification is enough. Others want more, and more requires work.  Maybe alternate weekends. Dry fire does not require you go to the range just the time to do it at home. It. Is best to confirm your dry fire training with live fire training. 

 

If you are going to dump tons of time in dry fire I would recommend books, you tube videos, web sites for study material from the likes of Ben Stoeger and/or Steve Anderson or someone of that caliber. Dry fire training performed incorrectly will only hurt not help. 

One of the best answers to this question on all the web, to include... recognizing>>>   "If you are shooting for fun and do not care about outcome then shoot matches. Many in USPSA do just that. They practice little to no dry fire, or live fire drills and shoot only matches."  <<<

Edited January 25, 2022 by P.E. Kelley

[dkramper]

I am also a new shooter. I just wanted to say thanks for the advice I picked up in this post.

[rhino3]

On 8/9/2021 at 6:09 AM, SGT_Schultz said:

 

I agree, if you know what correct looks and feels like.

 

If you don't, then it's a waste of time.

 

I agree with you on this