People! That Do Not Understand Self Defense

[Steve Moneypenny]

I've recently started seeing an old (female) friend with the intentions of being more than friends. on which i believe is both of our intent.

problem, She's afraid of and does not believe in firearms. I am interested in hearing how any of you Turned your signifigant other.

Tonight i got in an argument/discussion with a different female friend. who suggested everything from all u need is skills with a knife to you have to die some time, to being able to doge bullets!!!!!!

What is this world coming to, Do we need more murder and mayhem so naieve people will either get killed or wise the F. up!?!

Edited November 14, 2005 by Steve Moneypenny

[spook]

Oh man, I had the same issues with my ex. She just couldn't believe in the concept of "It's better to have it and not need it than the other way around".

Maybe you can take her out shooting sometime. I think most people are just afraid of firearms. If you take them out shooting small stuff like .22s and just have some fun on the range together, the fear part might go away.

I did that with my girl and she didn't lose her standpoint so much, but just never brought up the issue again, because she liked shooting too much. She also turned way more supportive of me shooting competitions.

Just bring it casually, like you don't really NEED her on the range. and let her figure out if she likes it

Good luck!

[AzShooter]

Good point Spook, and definately try to start the ladies off with a .22 and make sure they have eye and hearing protection. Many will find with practice they can easily handle a .45 but if you start them off with one it may be their only trip to the range.

[DKOL]

I had an ex who had a very anti-gun, why can't we all get along and hug trees together philosophy. She was completely opposed to me carrying concealed and never saw why I thought it was necessary. She kept this stance until we got a chalet in Gatlinburg one weekend. Driving up the mountain we ran across a few shady characters. She looked over at me and, with a fearful look in her eyes asked, "Do you have a gun with you?".... "of course" was my prompt reply. There was a distinct look of relief in her eyes and the question of me carrying never came up again.

[TriggerT]

A gun is a tool. No more, no less. If I put it on the table next to a hammer, they both would have just as much of a chance of hurting someone as the other, until one of them wass picked up.

Spook is right, Take her shooting, and hopefully she will start to see that guns are nothing to be afraid of, just respected.

As far as CCW, I think the saying goes something like "You never need a gun, until you REALLY need a gun." Same reason you wear a seat belt. A seat belt can be uncomfartable, restrictive, and generally a pain in the ass, but if you ever need it, you REALLY need it.

[diehli]

She... does not believe in firearms.

Tell her that whether or not she believes in them, they really exist.

[Alan Meek]

Steve,

Yesterday at North Mountain after the match was over Dan and Elaine set up two side matches, All of the regular competitors shot the plate rack and texas star for fastest time and Elaine had a small setup of targets for the spouses to shoot. While there were not as many ladies there to take advantage of this I think it was a great opportunity for the ladies to get a feel of shooting. This let the ladies shoot with out a gallery to watch and intimidate them.

Alan

[johnhurd]

A Liberal is really a Conservative that hasn't been accosted. Ask her to carry a sign attesting to the fact she abhors violence and carrying.............. I firmly believe in open carry that way the criminals know who to approach, suddenly the umbrella that the antis enjoy from the criminals not knowing who is carrying becomes much smaller!

[Skywalker]

Steve,

I guess it all comes down to asking her: "when that moment comes, when you have to decide if you want to repel the possibility of being victim of a violent act, do you want to react, or do you want to be the subject of that violence? Because the world is not populated by lambs only".

If she states that she'd prefer to live like a lamb, politely tell her it's HER choice, that you respect it, but she should not be imposing her choice to others.

Otherwise you could try and offer her the following comparison.

Probably she drives a car.

Ask her if her car has a spare tire.

Then, upon being told that it does, ask her how many times, since the day she got a driving license, she had to use it.

Now, since I suspect no more than a couple (if not at all) in several years, ask her why does she bother to have it inside her car trunk: the situation of a flat tire can be easily addressed by having a can of instant re-inflater foam, by driving to the nearest gas station, or by asking someone else to help.

If she chooses to have a spare tire in her car trunk, it's because she wants to be able to address an emergency situation without being grounded or having to wait for someone else's help.

[johnhurd]

Yeah well if she can change her own flat overlook her dislike of firearms Most of the time the spare is there on the vehicle so you don't have to bring it to the scene with you.

[Merlin Orr]

My wife shot a 232/250 her last licence renewal.

[Kimberkid]

I have been pretty fortunate that most of the girls I have dated for long enough to develop an attachment, have been pretty cool with the gun thing. It does make her family nervous sometimes, but as soon as they saw that it was in a real competitive format and not just a buncha rednecks getting drunk and shooting their own pick up trucks, they tend to be OK with it. I never bothered to volunteer that I carry one on my person, since that is MY choice for ME and has nothing to do with any of THEM.

1 girl was uncomfortable around them until she ran a couple mags through an MP5. All the girls I ever brought to the range, girlfriends and platonic female friends got comfortable with the whole thing very quickly due to the friendly banter of the other shooters on match day. I always had good luck with the whole "if you wanna shoot you can, but I wont ask 3 times" thing. If she does decide to shoot, dont morph into instructor mode. Show her all the controls and make sure she stays safe, but dont get nit picky with technique. Once she isnt scared of the bang, and can learn to let the recoil happen all on its own, you will know if she is really interested and if she wants to pursue her own shooting quest.

The girl I am dating now is totally cool with it, as is her family, but she personally has no desire to shoot. She comes to some of the matches, and hangs out, BS's and all that, but only does it to spend time with me and be supportive. She understands that I can enjoy it all by myself and just wants to see me havin fun, but that if she wants to shoot too, she is welcome.

Personally I would suggest you not make a big deal bout it at all, spend the same amount of time practicing and going to matches that you did before, and pretty soon she will align herself with that. That opens the door and once she gets comfortable with the match situation, she will be comfortable with the carry situation.

Or, tell her you will leave it at home, but she has to protect you tonight

Edited November 14, 2005 by George

[davidball]

I think New Orleans / Mississippi Gulf Coast in the wake of Hurricane Katrina serves as a good example of the need to defend oneself. Although not widely publicized in the mass media (big surprise), those who had arms were able to defend themselves and their property, those who did not were at the mercy of the thugs and the government.

[BritinUSA]

I know where you're coming from... This one issue broke up my last relationship. I still think about her all the time, but I just can't compromise my beliefs.

[AlamoShooter]

Do you have an X wife yet? If you can not comunicate your thoughts and fealings to someone that you care the most about, then you cannot have a very good relationship. It is not that important that you agree, just that you can respect and understand each others point of view. The frustration of not being understood can be destructive.

so help with your question, her point of view is that she probably does not wont to hurt someone to save a posestion/ thing, = like a TV or a car. She lives in an area that she could go out after 11 pm by herself

She is probly lucky that she does not know someone that has ben victimised, not so much had things stollen but had to submit to depraved criminals. she has probly one thought of a singal robber, and not in terms of three or more bad, desperate, molested as a child, kind of criminals. This kind of criminal wonts to take your self respect.

Your chose to protect your self and every one you care about. You don't wont to be forced to watch others victimised and stripped of their self respect.

Can she understand your point of view, and ecsept it?

[Carlos]

Steve - here is a story from a nuetral/liberal news source to at least get her thinking:

http://www.abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=1303400

recently at work, a friend & co-worker who knows I shoot brought up the idea of home defense w/a gun. She is a new mom & has NO gun experience & is generally anti-gun (thanks to M. Moore). She asked:

"Could you really look someone in the eye and shoot another human being?"

I thought about it for a moment & then, I answered truthfully. I said, "I don't know. I might freeze up. I might panic. Anything could happen & the fact is, I have never had to shoot anyone. I do not think anyone can say for sure how they would react - until the moment it happens. All I can do is prepeare myself as well as I can and hope I do the right thing."

Then I asked her a question: "Could you shoot someone who threatened to harm your baby?"

She answered: "In a heartbeat. I would do anything to protect my child."

-funny that her definition did not include (up to now) the possibility of using a firearm for defensive purposes.

Steve - you might point out that: "It is (or should be) a woman's right to choose to protect herself and her children from dangerous criminals."

Edited November 14, 2005 by Carlos

[Steve Moneypenny]

haha. thanks for the good advise, guys. i think i will just not mention it, i have carried a gun for 7 years and am pretty good at concealing it these days. so i will not mention it if she doesn't I have a couple of good friends who's girl's shoot also, so i am hoping i can introduce her to them and things will prosper from there.

[spook]

[...]I have a couple of good friends who's girl's shoot also, so i am hoping i can introduce her to them and things will prosper from there.

Sounds like a great plan

[Carlos]

Steve, stick with it! You just need to teach her to believe.

[George]

As a member of the Moderating staff here, I just have to say the following.

If the post you are making here has any content biased towards the application of lethal force in a self defense situation, please take a moment to read the forum guidlines and ask yourself the following question: How does this help to improve my shooting abilities in a competitive sportshooting event?

Here are the BE Forum Posting Guidlines FYI: http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?act=boardrules

Please note the section labeled "Intent"

--

Regards,

[ima45dv8]

I recently ran into an old friend who has never embraced the idea of firearms for self-defense. When asked why I had one, I answered with a couple of questions of my own.

"Do you have a fire extinguisher at home?" And then, "Do you wear a seatbelt in your car?"

The answer to both questions was, "Well, yes, of course."

I pointed out that both of those items were safety equipment that we really hope we won't need, but for which there is no suitable substitute when they are needed. I don't think a reasonable person would select a seatbelt to beat out a grease fire in the kitchen if a fire extinguisher were also available. Likewise, I doubt that same reasonable person choose to hold a fire extinguisher during an automobile crash instead of wearing a seatbelt as it would do little to increase their chances of surviving the impact.

The same logic applies to a personal defense weapon.

If you can get her to see it in that light, it might help.

Best of luck,

...Mark

[Steve Moneypenny]

George,

This in no way has to do the harming of any creature. It has the ability to positively or negatively effect my shooting by that of a loved "or atleast greatly admired" one having dissenting view points on my primary source of recreation and daily attire.

I have read and understand the guide lines, this being the hate forum, where this was posted and edited to be more tasteful by myself. I feel am well within those guidelines, much more in the specific mentioned rule of shooting abilities. I also contribute quite frequently in many venues of this forum and if you feel that i am breaking the rules you may delete this post. however please email a copy so that I will have the other posts to learn from. Which was the actual intent of this post, to learn what helped other members gain acceptance to those skeptical people who mean so much in their life.

[George]

Steve,

You ARE and have been within guidlines at all times and besides, it's your rant.

There is only one post here that has approached the issue from a difficult direction and it's not one of your's ;-)

Carry on Steve, after all, as I said earlier, it is your rant (per the hate forum guidlines).

To all: We are not here (BE Forums) to discuss the mindset and aftermath involved in using lethal force. Talking about the situation involved in dealing with a reticent significant other by teaching them to shoot is very cool. Rationaliizing and discussing what it actually takes to shoot at a living being with deadly intent is not. There are forums dedicated to self defence and how to deal with it. Take it there if it approaches, or crosses the line.

--

Regards,

[Kingman]

On another note Money I just had dinner with the second girl you mentioned and had to mess with her mind some tonight about the subject.

The second girl who I knows likes shooting shotguns but still does not see the need to carry a firearm. Interesting way of thinking. She somehow really does beleive that if you are fast enough you can dodge bullets. Don't quite know anyone that moves at oh about 800fps or faster, but I guess.

[Hank Ellis]

I think New Orleans / Mississippi Gulf Coast in the wake of Hurricane Katrina serves as a good example of the need to defend oneself. Although not widely publicized in the mass media (big surprise), those who had arms were able to defend themselves and their property, those who did not were at the mercy of the thugs and the government.

And this is what finally won my wife over. Before she tolerated my keeping and bearing arms. She tolerated my CCW barely. Katrina made her realize that the only ones we can depend on for protection is her and I. Seeing our local sportmans shop open carry due to their ice shipment being hijacked and people getting weird over gasoline opened her eyes. (FYI: The robbers didn't take money, or the truck, just the ice.)

I knew her attitude changed when she recently asked to be taught to use the 870 and has no problem with it being out where she can get to it in a hurry. If you knew my lady this is a huge step.

Anybody know of a female firearms instructor to teach a rank newbie? Kay Clark possibly?