AKJD Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 2 hours ago, Aircooled6racer said: Hello, let the PCC's run what they have. If they want 60 round magazines then let them have it. When I run a PCC I use 36-42 round magazines and do just fine on a USPSA pistol match with that amount. On a monster steel match I bump it up to 47. Why not limit all divisions to 10 rounds and be happy? Just kidding or maybe not-mmmm. Thanks, Eric Exactly, for USPSA anything longer is just over-compensating. I use a 33 round Glock mag with a 5 round extension. On my belt I carry a couple 17 round mags with extensions and have been able to get through high round field courses quite comfortably. I’m new to PCC so maybe the light bulb hasn’t came on yet and eventually I’ll figure out why I need a 60 round mag. I also don’t see a reason to limit the mag capacity, the reason to have different divisions is so they are different. Isn’t it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatJones Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 When PCC was setup, the Glock big stick was the obvious choice to run in the rifles. Problem is, this magazine is longer than 170mm and doesn't fit the existing gauge. Two choices here, make a new gauge or don't impose a length limit. USPSA chose the latter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71Commander Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 19 hours ago, RedlandsShooter said: For example, my Colt pattern PCC mags hold less than a similar size Glock 33 round mag. Not restricting the mag capacity permits all of the firearm manufacturers to play the game. I think USPSA got this one correct from the beginning. Yep. If there was a limit, then the manufacturer that made the mag that held the most rounds would dominate the market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillChunn Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 (edited) It's fairly obvious that some of you have not put in the time, effort or money to get a couple of PCC "big sticks" to run all the time. Wow.... Think about what you are asking when you state "I want a limit" or "I want all the magazines carried to have the same amount of rounds in them". Remember one of the basic fundamentals of this sport. You are presented with a shooting problem. You bring the solution and execute it. Your solution might be PCC where you are always scored minor (significant disadvantage) but you get to use a magazine with more rounds it in than Open division. Now, does that magazine run or barf in the middle of the stage? The idea of "I'll save time by not reloading" could crash and burn when that big stick fails and now time is spent clearing the malfunction and doing a reload. None of these "creative ideas" were ever established for this division. There are niche manufacturers for our sport that spent significant amounts of money to create products that fit the existing rules. Now you want to pull the rug out from under them and ban their products? Follow IDPA rules? Really? How about just shoot IDPA and leave my gear (and my investment) alone? You don't like PCC division or the associated rules? The solution is very, very simple. Don't shoot it. For some of us that have been at this game for a while, it's a division that can still be enjoyed after 20+ years of elbow tendon damage from race guns. BC Edited March 9, 2021 by BillChunn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gerritm Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 10 minutes ago, BillChunn said: It's fairly obvious that some of you have not put in the time, effort or money to get a couple of PCC "big sticks" to run all the time. Wow.... Think about what you are asking when you state "I want a limit" or "I want all the magazines carried to have the same amount of rounds in them". Remember one of the basic fundamentals of this sport. You are presented with a shooting problem. You bring the solution and execute it. Your solution might be PCC where you are always scored minor (significant disadvantage) but you get to use a magazine with more rounds it in than Open division. Now, does that magazine run or barf in the middle of the stage? The idea of "I'll save time by not reloading" could crash and burn when that big stick fails and now time is spent clearing the malfunction and doing a reload. None of these "creative ideas" were ever established for this division. There are niche manufacturers for our sport that spent significant amounts of money to create products that fit the existing rules. Now you want to pull the rug out from under them and ban their products? Follow IDPA rules? Really? How about just shoot IDPA and leave my gear (and my investment) alone? You don't like PCC division or the associated rules? The solution is very, very simple. Don't shoot it. For some of us that have been at this game for a while, it's a division that can still be enjoyed after 20+ years of elbow damage from race guns. BC This, including the elbow & arthritis. and by the way our 57 round Glock mags with MBX Extensions run. Actually all our mags run, why have them if they don't work. Part of the game is figuring out how to make all the equipment work as close to 100% as possible. gerritm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillChunn Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 3 minutes ago, gerritm said: This, including the elbow & arthritis. and by the way our 57 round Glock mags with MBX Extensions run. Actually all our mags run, why have them if they don't work. Part of the game is figuring out how to make all the equipment work as close to 100% as possible. gerritm ^^^^ This I was one of the "early adopters" of PCC division. It was painful. I found that the steel magazine release and plastic Glock magazines were not a good combination. Sure they ran just fine when new, but put a couple of years of matches on them and the magazine starts dropping out of the gun unexpectedly. The steel magazine release had worn down the plastic on the magazine catch and during recoil, would jar the magazine out of the gun. Middle of the stage and "CLICK". Not a good sound to hear.... My "go to" mag is the MBX Steel Glock magazine with the extension. When it is properly maintained it is very dependable. BC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IVC Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 I'm also surprised nobody mentioned the obvious "problem" with trying to create magazine rules in PCC - since they are NOT inside the grip, they can be as wide as they need to be. A drum magazine, or a a pyramid shaped one would bypass any length restriction, so it would have to be a restriction on the number of rounds. It couldn't be ten, because "nobody shoots 10 round divisions" and it wouldn't make sense to pick a random number that is between 10 and 60. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broadside72 Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 PCC is why I like to have classifiers and speed shoots with mandatory reloads.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bdh821 Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 On 3/10/2021 at 1:49 PM, broadside72 said: PCC is why I like to have classifiers and speed shoots with mandatory reloads.... because it's easy to reload a pcc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UpYoursPal Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 On 3/9/2021 at 2:04 PM, IVC said: I'm also surprised nobody mentioned the obvious "problem" with trying to create magazine rules in PCC - since they are NOT inside the grip, they can be as wide as they need to be. A drum magazine, or a a pyramid shaped one would bypass any length restriction, so it would have to be a restriction on the number of rounds. It couldn't be ten, because "nobody shoots 10 round divisions" and it wouldn't make sense to pick a random number that is between 10 and 60. Additionally, many PCC magazines are curved instead of straight. If you try to implement a length restriction, how could you conceivably gauge them to check length? Like others have said, PCC has its own myriad problems, but mag capacity is very low on the list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillChunn Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 On 3/10/2021 at 1:49 PM, broadside72 said: PCC is why I like to have classifiers and speed shoots with mandatory reloads.... @broadside72 is from Commiefornia so he has to live under a different set of laws... some of us don't. 17 hours ago, Bdh821 said: because it's easy to reload a pcc? Personally, the carbine (with a magwell the size of the Holland Tunnel) can be reloaded a bit quicker than my Sig P320 that can not have a magwell in Carry Optics. YMMV BC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bdh821 Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 24 minutes ago, BillChunn said: @broadside72 is from Commiefornia so he has to live under a different set of laws... some of us don't. Personally, the carbine (with a magwell the size of the Holland Tunnel) can be reloaded a bit quicker than my Sig P320 that can not have a magwell in Carry Optics. YMMV BC I 100% agree that reloading my PCC is easier than my X5 FLegion (Fake Legion). Altho I'm not that good at reloading anything Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broadside72 Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 On 3/11/2021 at 11:00 AM, Bdh821 said: because it's easy to reload a pcc? On 3/12/2021 at 4:22 AM, BillChunn said: @broadside72 is from Commiefornia so he has to live under a different set of laws... some of us don't. Personally, the carbine (with a magwell the size of the Holland Tunnel) can be reloaded a bit quicker than my Sig P320 that can not have a magwell in Carry Optics. YMMV BC Because I watch many PCC shooters have trouble with reloads on the clock since they usually don't ever have to do them. You think they run those 35+ round sticks so they can reload during a run? Sure, if you actually practice it's easy but based on how many times I have seen a PCC shooter fumble a reload during a standards, it is pretty obvious its not something practiced often Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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