9mm Spacers Or Load Long

[Robbie Wheaton Jr]

I am trying to decide which way to go with my new open gun. Who uses spacers in their magazines? Who loads long? What are the pros and cons of each? The gun is a STI with the S2 barrel, no holes. My powder of choice is HS6, and the bullet is the 125gr Zero. My new heater will be delivered about the first week in December so I do not have a lot of time to order my magazines, have them tuned and delivered before my new pistol arrives. What do the masses think, load long with no spacers, or load short and use the spacers? HELP!!!

[short_round]

What do the masses think, load long with no spacers, or load short and use the spacers? HELP!!!

All of the above for me. I these Joey Hardy spacers from Shooters Connection. I also load to 1.170 with a 124 Montana Gold JHP.

... I should specify STI tubes, grams internals, and grams base pads.

Edited November 2, 2005 by short_round

[Harmon]

im gonna put the spacers in my magazines...even though they are SV tubes

im gonna load 1.165 oal with mg124 jhps....jurys out on powder choice.

[warpspeed]

I have replaced all my STI tubes with SV tubes. No problems in 3 different 9x19 guns.

[dirtypool40]

Hey Robbie!!! Welcome aboard. 'amembah me? We shot SC state together back in 02 and FL Open in 04. Leaving Limited, huh?

Anyway, my $.02; I had Dan Bedell build my open blaster (yes, the one I sold to buy a diamond). I sent him SV tubes, Grams guts, and Dawson basepads. the gun ran like a raped ape with no spacers and loading no longer than 1.165" oal.

PaulW is many, many times the open shooter I am, and he went just the opposite way; Bedell gun, but STI tubes with spacers. I think if the gun is set up well, either can work.

[cpty1]

I am, and always have used STI tubes, Dawson +1 pads, Grams internals, with spacers. OAL is 1.155 with a 125 gr Zero JHP.

[Thomas Moore]

i tried the SV tubes, grams guts but had issues with the mags not falling free out of my bedell STI. so i switched to STI tubes, hardy spaces and grams guts. the sti tubes where .010" shorter from front to back and therefor fell free of the grip when the mag button was depressed.

[smokshwn]

I have had zero mag related problems shooting a Bedell gun, SV tubes, Grams guts and Dawson pads. I load a 125 gr Zero with 8.2gr of 3n37 to 1.16 length.

Good Luck Craig

[Adam B]

I have been using SVI tubes with grams guts and dawson basepads with zero problems. I am using 7.5gr of true blue, 125 gr Zero JHP in once fired winchester brass with Winchester SRP and 1.165 OAL

Edited November 2, 2005 by boynty77

[TDean]

I'm gearing up for 9mm also. I have STI 170 and 140 tubes, Hardy spacer with Grams follower, spring and basepad. The spacers don't exactly line-up with the top of the mag. I'm ready to get the file out to blend it to better fit there and at the bottom. There's a gap between the semi-circle cut out in the spacer and the cut out in the mag. Anyone have soem fitting tips?

[Radical Precision Designs]

Hey Robbie!!! Welcome aboard. 'amembah me? We shot SC state together back in 02 and FL Open in 04. Leaving Limited, huh?

Anyway, my $.02; I had Dan Bedell build my open blaster (yes, the one I sold to buy a diamond). I sent him SV tubes, Grams guts, and Dawson basepads. the gun ran like a raped ape with no spacers and loading no longer than 1.165" oal.

PaulW is many, many times the open shooter I am, and he went just the opposite way; Bedell gun, but STI tubes with spacers. I think if the gun is set up well, either can work.

A few years back, when experimenting with the .357SiG (and 9mm.) for future use in Open-Major, I tried every set-up I could think of, plus any and all ideas that came my way. At that time "Dawson" suggested and sent me the spacers and followers he had made for 9mm. They actually helped a lot with the .357SiG. Later on with a bit or feed ramp re-work they fed fine with any set-up, so far as there were no defects in the mags, followers and springs. People still remember me from those days, as I would get red/angry and "yell" at the gun when it FTF. Since then I do my "testing and yelling" in private, rather than at the matches.

But, oh yes, I do hear great things from shooters who entrusted their mags to Shops like Grams and Bedell. Although very often a "brand new" magazine as it came from the factory will out-shoot one that was "tweaked" by the shooter him/herself. While those worked/tweaked by Grams just keep on "ticking".

One thing I did noticed from those early Dawson spacers and followers kits, and to the same degree the spacers and followers from STI, is that not only do they position the cartridges forward for easier feeding without a front-rear stagger, but somehow the front of the follower is raised, which helps eliminate ramp nose-diving with the shorter loads.

But if you load them '9's real long? Well then you are better off using .38Super mags set-ups.

[GTOSHootr]

When I was gathering mags for my new 9Major gun I bought all .38 Super mags, 5 STIs and 2 SVs. Some of them are new STI with Grams guts, some are new SV with SV guts, and some were used with unidentified guts. I bought spacers and 9mm Grams kits from Shooters Connection thinking I would convert them all. However, all of my mags have fed perfectly with my loads without touching them at all. That is going on 4k rounds. I'm loading at 1.165 125 Zero JHP. I didn't think that was a "long" load though.

TDean, when I did take a look at how the spacers fit the mags, I did have the space you refer to. I couldn't figure out how to get them to fit either.

Steve

[cpty1]

TDean, you asked about spacer fitting.....First of all, the spacer should lay absolutely flat in the tube. Pull the spring, follower, and basepad off and ensure this is the case. Bend the spacer if necessary to ensure it lays flat. We bevel two of the edges on the spacer; one on the front facing or chamber side and one on the back or hammer side. The front facing side of the spacer should have a 45 degree bevel or so across the bottom or basepad end to ensure a compressed spring coil doesn't get hung under the bottom of the spacer. We put another bevel on the back facing, top edge, just in case the spacer rides up above the mag body. Of course, the front facing side should be polished smooth. The square cut in the top of the Hardy spacer is obviously different than the u shape cut in the top of the STI mag. This is irrelevant, as a properly fit spacer should be visible on when looking down from the top, into the mag. The spacer should not be visible when viewing from the rear of the magazine. Assemble the mag. The spacer should have about 1/32s of an inch of vertical movement. It should move back and forth just a bit when you shake the mag up and down. Once all spacers are fitted and tested, I number my tubes, spacers, and base pads to ensure paired/tested components don't get separated in cleaning and present a problem. The 140mm Hardy spacers I sell have the polishing done and bevels already cut, although minor fitting will still probably be necessary. My 170 spacer offering is Beven's product. Fitting is still pretty much the same IMO, but the top cut is u shaped on those to match the top cut of the mag. Good luck.

[diehli]

My new heater will be delivered about the first week in December so I do not have a lot of time to order my magazines, have them tuned and delivered before my new pistol arrives.

I'm a broken record, but here's what you do. Pick up the phone, have a credit card handy. Call Beven at 949/548-3745. Tell him what you have coming and what you need. Listen. Order.

[benny hill]

Have used sti mags w/ ismi springs & dawson followers w/ factory 9mm short ammo for 2 years w/ zero malfuntions. It's all in the set-up

[eric nielsen]

I have 115gr Federal hollowbase FMJ bullets that allow me to seat them to 1.220" with the same amount of bullet pull in the case as a 115 JHP at 1.150". Identical bullet is widely available from Winchester.

If that helps to confuse anybody...

[Kingman]

I use spacers of my own make. I like having metal in them instead of the plastic ones. load to 1.16 and works like a champ.

Tried loading 1.165 without and just could not get the trick to roll.

[old shooter]

You know, a lot of us that use 9major are looking to save a few bucks. My STI and SVI mags both work without a spacer and the last thing I want to do is spend more money to buy something that isn't broken, or something that can be fixed by loading a little longer. I load at 1.165, and think that this might be a little long to use with spacers. I think the majority of 9major shooters use this length, or something very close not only to make their guns feed reliably, but it also makes finding a good load easier at this length. My vote.....no spacer

Mike

[Carl]

I have 2 Hardy Guns. When I ran STI tubes I had Plastic Spacers. Don't use Plastic Spacers, they do not last long. if you decide to use spacers, go with the metal ones. Listen to Chris Patty's advice on how to fit them.

I now use SV tubes, with Grams kits, no spacers, they run problem free in both guns. No tuning, just the kits and Dawson basepads. I believe in the fewer parts the better.

BUT the bottom line is, as Benny Hill stated "It's all in the set-up". You will have to try what will work for your gun, or simply do as your gunsmith suggests, he's building it, he should know.

even though I'm not following my own advice, I spent a LOT of money figuring out what worked and what didn't. For me.

Carl

[TDean]

"..Listen to Chris Patty's advice on how to fit them.."

Chris Patty, I need advice.

Edited November 3, 2005 by TDean

[blue edge]

I have a Bedell 9mm shorty, SV tubes (170 & 140) Grams springs, followers & basepads, no spacers.

Runs like a champ with Win. white box (for steel match) I think its about 1.120 to 1.190 for USPSA. I have settled into 1.155

[cpty1]

TDean, PM sent in case you need info in addition to my "how to fit spacers" post.

[GENE S]

can you shoot a 9mm throughg a 38 sup

barel with out burning it out ?

Gene

[Radical Precision Designs]

can you shoot a 9mm throughg a 38 sup

barel with out burning it out ?

Gene

The .38 Super has a "minimal" rim for headspacing. It also spaces in the mouth, where it "seals" (somewhat) the chamber before the bullet engages the barrel rifling.

The extractor is usually "tuned" for the specific dimensions of the cartridge, and the .38 Super is slightly larger than the 9mm.

The 9mm. is a "rimless" cartridge, (as is the .38 Super-Comp) and it headspaces in the mouth, unlike the .38 Super.

When, and if you fire the 9mm in a .38 Super chamber, the "mouth support insufficiency" will mandate that only the "extractor hold" in the "smaller rim" of the 9mm is the only thing holding the cartridge in place. If somehow during "loading up", the cartridge misses engaging the rim from the onset, it will be pushed forward where it will remain away from the reach of the firing pin or the extractor to "withdraw" it after the hammer falls and nothing happens. Kind of an awkward thing to clear during a match.

On the other hand if the extractor is adjusted tight and has a somooth "load-up" stage, and the cartridge is held solidly to support firing pin forward push, and it fires consistently... then the above can and will still apply at any time during shooting a match...

While the occasional firing of a 9mm in a .38 Super "might" go off without any major consecuences other than chamber fouling when later on you decide to fire the correct ammo, it could (theoretically) "erode" the "small step" that forms the mouth spacing for the .38 Super, in additions to a "blasting/roughing" area just before it which could affect the future extraction abilities of the original cartridge.

If you insist on shooting 9mm in addition of the .38 Super, you might consider fitting your gun with an additional barrel set-up for the 9mm. and "switch" whenever you wish.

Once upon a time (absent minded that we all can be sometimes) I shot an entire match with my .38 Super using 9mm. The ammo was very close matched, enough that I couldn't tell the diference during firing. Point of impact, extraction, etc. felt the same. That is untill I reached for a new box of ammo to continue, this time using .38 Super. Inmediately I started to have problems due to chamber fouling, when the cartridges refused to chamber completely. I did poorly in that match, obviously. I cleaned the barrel later, and no permanent damage was done, but I couldn't guarrantee that with long term use.

[TDean]

I need glasses apparently. Thanks Chris!