Best Powder for 9mm NATO/+P

[Wolerine19D]

3 hours ago, FightFireJay said:

I misread that the HST info was pulled bullets not loaded ammo.  But this is also kind of my point, if the purpose is for self defense then perhaps replicating the approximate factory velocity is a good starting place to ensure proper terminal ballistics.  HSTs are pretty forgiving of short barrels and Lowe velocity but they are typically at the shallow end of penetration.  Going above factory ammo may further decrease penetration by increasing expansion.

 

I'm not saying any of the information given is wrong nor am I disapproving of the OPs intentions, I was just looking for the whole picture.

As stated above by another member this is not practice ammo, I plan on using FMJ's and RMR MPR rounds for that.  These will be loaded up to stash away in case they are ever needed in the future for emergencies.  So likely they won't be used and one of my family members will eventually shoot them up after I'm gone. 

 

I don't plan to use these for self defense, I have plenty of factory HST and Gold Dot rounds for that.  But I couldn't pass these up for the price and I don't want to just burn them up when I can do so with other less effective rounds.  I also like the idea of having a good stash of ammo loaded up in case it is ever needed in the future and if that situation ever comes these bullets should be about as good as it gets and it won't matter if you use reloads for defense since there wouldn't be any court of law left. 

 

And as for penetration the HST's always penetrate more then 12" even at high velocity, they are about the most consistent round you can get when it comes to penetration.  The only exception to this I know of is their .380 rounds which come up a little short.  But their 9-40-45's all easily do 12-18", and they still expand great in short barrels as well.  On paper they are as good as it gets for defensive purposes, but I doubt their is that much of a difference in the top performers when it comes to real world results.  My top picks are Gold Dots, and HST's with the Remington Golden Saber and Winchester Ranger ammo being right up there as well but without any pulled bullets available like the Gold Dots/HST's. 

 

The RMR Multi Purpose Rounds also seem to do quite well for the money but there hasn't been much testing done on them with different velocities and different barriers and no real world cases I know of, but they shoot great and a lot of guys seem to like them for competition. 

 

And I may very well be overthinking things, I tend to do that.  I try to research everything as much as possible before jumping in and when it comes to something like this I see no harm in picking a powder that is optimal rather then one that will work.  It doesn't really cost anymore money to pick a powder that has low flash, is fairly clean, and produces the least recoil for my velocity goals.  If I was plinking in the back yard I wouldn't care as much but if these were to ever be used for defensive purposes or possibly even hunting then the lower recoil would be nice for follow up shots.  As shooters and gun enthusiasts we all have different interests and goals but share the same sport and lifestyle.  What I am doing here may not make sense to most of you but it does to me and I'll enjoy the experience as well.  I appreciate everyones input along the way!

[Wolerine19D]

Hey AHI, is my thread against forum rules in some way?  If that is the case I am sorry.  It seemed in line with other topics started on this section of the forum. 

 

Or is this forum only used for competition like Minor/Major with no other topics allowed to be discussed?  If so that is unfortunate because the members here seem to be very helpful and knowledgeable. 

 

Edited to add - And yes I do have a chronograph and couldn't imagine reloading without it.  Especially for something like this when you get into +P territory, there's no way I would trust a random load online without working it up myself with my brass/bullets etc. 

Edited June 30, 2020 by Wolerine19D

[ChuckS]

7 minutes ago, Wolerine19D said:

Hey AHI, is my thread against forum rules in some way?  If that is the case I am sorry.  It seemed in line with other topics started on this section of the forum. 

 

-- snip ---

The forum guidelines can be seen here: https://forums.brianenos.com/guidelines/

[Sarge]

In short:

While the occasional defensive shooting post is not prohibited, in general, defensive shooting discussions or debates are discouraged. And please, no hunting or "killing animals" (of any kind) threads.

[Wolerine19D]

6 minutes ago, ChuckS said:

The forum guidelines can be seen here: https://forums.brianenos.com/guidelines/

Thank you for this, it appears my thread is on topic then.  I have no interest in discussing self defense scenarios and only mentioned so above in reply to another member.  This is solely about reloading and storing and possibly eventually shooting this ammo for whatever purpose. 

[AHI]

You did it the correct way. You asked questions .you got answers.

You did not break any rules. I caught onto what you were after and understood.

 

Edited July 1, 2020 by AHI

[FightFireJay]

2 hours ago, Wolerine19D said:

And I may very well be overthinking things, I tend to do that.  I try to research everything as much as possible before jumping in...

Guilty as charged.  I have at least half a dozen various pistol powders when I'm sure I can make do with 1 or 2 lol.

 

Given the large number of appropriate powder recommendations (if it were me) I'd probably find a load in there that had a decent margin of safety and was supported with published load data (Alliant and Accurate/Ramshot have 9mm +P data if I recall correctly).

Edited July 1, 2020 by FightFireJay

[RGA]

On 6/25/2020 at 3:37 PM, s2000red said:

This might help.  http://www.natoreloading.com/9mm/

 

 

Thanks a lot for this link!

[MakBaba]

Picked up 4lb of True Blue from Midway after reading its praise on natoreloading.com.
The powder is a VERY fine ball powder. My Lee Autodrum measure struggled to hold it all in without leaking. W244 is much easier to work with.

My first load of 5.9 with 124g plated Everglades at 1.150 gave me 1138 fps with no pressure signs using WSP. ES19 SD7

I have no need to push higher but it seems there’s a little room there.

Glock 17 and CZ75B
Will be trying it with Blue 135TC next

 

[Wolerine19D]

3 hours ago, MakBaba said:

Picked up 4lb of True Blue from Midway after reading its praise on natoreloading.com.
The powder is a VERY fine ball powder. My Lee Autodrum measure struggled to hold it all in without leaking. W244 is much easier to work with.

My first load of 5.9 with 124g plated Everglades at 1.150 gave me 1138 fps with no pressure signs using WSP. ES19 SD7

I have no need to push higher but it seems there’s a little room there.

Glock 17 and CZ75B
Will be trying it with Blue 135TC next

 

There should be more then a little extra room there.  From what I've seen 1138fps from it is not even maxing out standard pressure for that powder yet alone +P.  It should do 1200+fps easily with any factory pistol without maxing it out. 

 

If it wasn't for needing such a large charge weight I would probably order the True Blue myself based on all the reviews.  I just don't see that it has any advantage for me though at the 1175-1200fps mark since it will likely produce more recoil then the N330/WSF etc.  How did it feel to you recoil wise?  Any comparison between it and other powders at that velocity level?  I imagine the recoil difference between the different powders is more noticeable at +P pressures. 

[MakBaba]

Just going from Westerns data. +p has 6.1 max @1150. Judging by my brass, yes you should have room to run if you like. 
Rem Golden Saber 124 +p goes 1190 from my g17. Shouldn’t have any problem getting there with TB.
My 5.9/124 has a pf 140

My 3.9 w244 w/ 135 TC BLUE has a pf 137

The TB load was noticeably snappier. Similar to factory 124 loads as best as I remember. 
Natoreloading has some adventurous loads if you’re looking.

[Reeferman]

Accurate 7 will get you there as well.

[Shadowrider]

I had a guy (and someone who would know) tell me that Federal loads BE86 in most of their factory pistol rounds. It was available for years as a non-canister powder to the OEMs before being offered as a retail canister powder. If I were limited to a single powder for all handgun uses it would be BE86. Thankfully we aren't because it's not the best choice for gaming, but for your purpose it's hard to beat.

Edited July 28, 2020 by Shadowrider
clarification

[damon32382]

On 6/26/2020 at 4:11 PM, 1911in9mm said:

If I had to pick 1 powder to load 9mm, and N330 was unavailable it’d be WSF.  Power Pistol and 330 are so close it’s not funny, other than muzzle flash.  N340 and WSF mirror each other performance wise.  Reason I’d take WSF is there’s not enough difference to justify the premium price.  Both clean, accurate, low flash.  Different price points. 
 

WAC/CFEP,  6 of one half dozen another.  Your research is accurate.  Dirty on the low end, clean up nicely at mid range plus.  Not obnoxiously flashy on the high end.  I’ve not loaded BE86 but have a friend that does.  He gets some nice loads with it.  Good numbers, accurate, clean mid to high range, nice little muzzle bloom though, not atrocious.  
 

Only powder I’m still trying to locate a few pounds of locally is True Blue.  Word around the campfire is that it’s a true gem in a 9mm.  I’d like to sample it on a small scale before I’d commit enough to order it in bulk.  

Just out of curiosity, you’d say WSF powder is just as clean burning as N340? I’m a huge fan of N340. 

[1911in9mm]

3 hours ago, damon32382 said:

Just out of curiosity, you’d say WSF powder is just as clean burning as N340? I’m a huge fan of N340. 

As long as you’re not loading mouse farts, I’d say they’re extremely close on cleanliness.  If you’re loading to replicate factory FMJ blaster ammo and keep PF to a similar level I didn’t see enough difference to warrant the premium for N340.  Now you throttle back PF to less than 130 it’ll dirty up quite a bit, nothing atrocious.  But you’ll notice it. 

[Joe4d]

I really am liking BE86 for full power loads. Stuff runs clean is really consistent and pressure stays down, without the BOOM of power pistol . I liked it for 357 mag 180 flat nose bowling pin loads, 158 gr SWC and  also was decent in my 2.75" lightweight revolver. 
Also used it for my 250 gr 45 acp pin loads, so lower pressure but still burned pretty clean. 
Basically used it for same thing and loaded up several K of 158gr hardcast to put away for a rainy day. and I have ALOT of different pistol powders on hand.

[Farmer]

I sure hope the OP has found a solution by now. To that I will add that Silhouette makes for accurate  hi-vel loads in 9 & 45. With a RMR 124HP 1230 fps is pretty easy to obtain. 

[damon32382]

On 8/23/2022 at 10:11 PM, 1911in9mm said:

As long as you’re not loading mouse farts, I’d say they’re extremely close on cleanliness.  If you’re loading to replicate factory FMJ blaster ammo and keep PF to a similar level I didn’t see enough difference to warrant the premium for N340.  Now you throttle back PF to less than 130 it’ll dirty up quite a bit, nothing atrocious.  But you’ll notice it. 

Thank you sir! And no mouse farts for me. Lol! Thank you for the feedback, been wanting to explore other powders besides VV.