Bullet Ricochet

[Glock17open]

Thought this would be a good place for this post. Yesterday at a steel match. As I was watching another competitor shoot. A bullet ricocheted off a steel plate, hit me in the shin and proceed to pass through my lower leg and embedded in my calf muscle.  It bleed like a water hose was turned on. Blood streamed out of the front of my leg. I took a little Trip to the ER, via ambulance. Good new is no major damage.  Bullet fragment was left in my leg, because it would do more damage to remove it.  A couple of days of rest and back to shooting this coming weekend.

[mvmojo]

How far away from the target were you standing and from approximately what angle did the ricochet come?  

[Glock17open]

Thirty plus yards, about a 45 degree angle

[mvmojo]

Of course, we all shoot steel at our own risk!  I shoot 1,500 to 2,000 rounds a month at steel and have seen fragments come back from time to time but it's unusual that you'd get a high velocity ricochet at that distance and angle from a good steel target.  Not saying it can't happen because obviously it did!  Have to wonder if your ricochet came from steel that was pock-marked from a rifle shot or something or if there was an exposed bracket, crack or edge that the bullet fragment hit which abnormally deflected it.  Generally a hardened flat plate will ricochet in the 20 degree range, and most are mounted so that they angle downward to further deflect fragments into the ground below the target.  But if the plate is deformed by pock-marks, cracks, etc. then all bets are off!  Glad to hear it wasn't too serious, there was no major damage and no long term disability!  Maybe you should change your name to "LuckyGlock17open" or "UnluckyGlock17open" depending on your perspective!

Edited June 14, 2020 by mvmojo

[Styro]

1 hour ago, Glock17open said:

Yesterday at a steel match. As I was watching another competitor shoot. A bullet ricocheted off a steel plate, hit me in the shin and proceed to pass through my lower leg and embedded in my calf muscle.  It bleed like a water hose was turned on. Blood streamed out of the front of my leg. I took a little Trip to the ER, via ambulance.

You should've told them to removed that frag. You'll likely feel the pain from it when you get older.

[Glock17open]

It was at MCV, a level one Trauma center in Richmond Virginia.  They see multiple gunshots wounds a day.  This is one of the hospitals that there train combat surgeons for the military. I was in good hands.

[MikeyScuba]

Any chance of getting a pic of the offending plate? 

[Glock17open]

I was focused on the water hose like flow of blood from my leg

[OdinIII]

I was focused on the water hose like flow of blood from my leg

You didn’t even get a nice video for the ‘Gram?

[IHAVEGAS]

3 hours ago, Styro said:

You should've told them to removed that frag. You'll likely feel the pain from it when you get older.

 

I'd be more likely to look into having it removed if it ever became a problem than to risk removing it against Dr's advice. 

[Glock17open]

1 hour ago, OdinIII said:

You didn’t even get a nice video for the ‘Gram?

I stuck my finger in the hole to stop the blood from gushing out.

[OdinIII]

I stuck my finger in the hole to stop the blood from gushing out.

Wow! That sounds like an adventure.

Thanks for sharing. It never hurts to let others know that sometimes things go sideways and we need to be prepared.

[Glock17open]

1 hour ago, OdinIII said:

Wow! That sounds like an adventure.

Thanks for sharing. It never hurts to let others know that sometimes things go sideways and we need to be prepared.

Have a first aid kit at every match.  I had a paramedic in my squad and I am a certified athletic Trainer.

Edited June 14, 2020 by Glock17open

[Styro]

2 hours ago, IHAVEGAS said:

 

I'd be more likely to look into having it removed if it ever became a problem than to risk removing it against Dr's advice. 

i guess that surgeon was concerned about nerve damage. but I would've required a second opinion. a sharp jagged metal object left in muscle tissue is very very bad. I had three shrapnels removed after they caused me so much agony for the years they were in there.

[Glock17open]

11 minutes ago, Styro said:

i guess that surgeon was concerned about nerve damage. but I would've required a second opinion. a sharp jagged metal object left in muscle tissue is very very bad. I had three shrapnels removed after they caused me so much agony for the years they were in there.

I am friends with an orthopedic doc I have called him.

Edited June 14, 2020 by Glock17open

[Styro]

great. You're set then.

[JFlowers]

Glad to here you are okay.

 

I know this was a major issue in another shooting sport and I was part of a group that did a lot of testing.  Smooth steel and hang angle were two of the most important things we found to control ricochets.

  

[vinconco]

Any right angles will send frags backs.   The worst offenders are target plates welded to a "foot" and set on pedestals as "knock down" plates.

Large Hex bolts, hooks all form right angles.  Texas Stars send back a fair amount of frags too.

 

Here is an example of a properly designed target plate.  The bolt hole is square to accept Carriage Bolts which have rounded low profile heads that reduce splash back.  Always use high tensile Grade 8 bolts.   The heads pop off the hardware store junk.

The plate hangs by gravity at approx 10% back angle.   The plate is loosely mounted and very reactive and rings like a bell.

 

VIDEO 12 GA. SLUG ON THIS TARGET

 

 

 

Edited June 16, 2020 by vinconco

[Glock17open]

Update, doing better no pain walking normal 

[shred]

21 hours ago, vinconco said:

Any right angles will send frags backs.   The worst offenders are target plates welded to a "foot" and set on pedestals as "knock down" plates.

Large Hex bolts, hooks all form right angles.  Texas Stars send back a fair amount of frags too.

 

 The bolt hole is square to accept Carriage Bolts which have rounded low profile heads that reduce splash back. 

 

 

 

Plow bolts are even better if you countersink the front face of the plate.

 

[vinconco]

1 hour ago, shred said:

Plow bolts are even better if you countersink the front face of the plate.

 

I've used plow bolts.   They are tough and hard. 

Countersinking the plate would make the surface completely flat, an ideal situation.   But countersinking AR500 is beyond the scope of most enthusiasts and I'm not sure how it would be done in a production scenario and still be cost effective.  

[shred]

Cone grinding bit for one-offs, carbide countersink if you've got a knee or CNC mill.  Multi-axis plasma or waterjet if you get fancy in production (that can make chamfers on both sides which is nice for flipping the plate).  Carbide works OK on AR500.  The most difficult part when I do them on the mill is usually squaring the hole to fit the bolt neck without making it ugly.

 

I've seen commercial plates done that way (where I got the idea), so somebody's figured it out, but it takes more than the usual garage plasma table.

 

[lgh]

On 6/14/2020 at 11:39 AM, Styro said:

You should've told them to removed that frag.

Not likely you'll tell a trauma surgeon, or any other surgeon, what to do. They know when to take it out and when to leave it in. I'm in the biz and have seen most bullet frags left in unless they are close to the spinal cord or a major vessel.

[vinconco]

15 minutes ago, shred said:

Cone grinding bit for one-offs, carbide countersink if you've got a knee or CNC mill.  Multi-axis plasma or waterjet if you get fancy in production (that can make chamfers on both sides which is nice for flipping the plate).  Carbide works OK on AR500.  The most difficult part when I do them on the mill is usually squaring the hole to fit the bolt neck without making it ugly.

 

I've seen commercial plates done that way (where I got the idea), so somebody's figured it out, but it takes more than the usual garage plasma table.

 

 

I have mine done on a commercial laser table and I'm able to get the hole cut precisely @ .515" x .515" with a .040" radius in the corners.  This accepts the 1/2" square shoulder of a carriage bolt that fits with just enough clearance to be easily inserted but tight enough to keep the bolt head flush to the plate. 

Better than a hex bolt but not quite as good as a machine fit plow bolt.

[Jim Watson]

Ouch, I have been hit by rebounds and ricochets but that is a bad one.