Brass Costs In Open

[eric nielsen]

Had a little time on my hands, punched these numbers out. Rebuttals welcome.

Based on 'shooting a lot' - trying to really improve for one year. 50 weeks. One 50-round fun shoot per week, one 135-round Sat or Sun match per week. 5 big tournaments at 250 rds each [instead of 185 locally]. Around here all of that is lost brass cost.

Plus, 350 rds per week practice, 40-50 lost each session plus replacing the used cases after 5 firings.

Comes out to 22K total rounds fired, and requires buying 16K pieces of brass.

Locally bought Super/Supercomp $115 per K x 16 = $1840

Tournament dealer Super/S-comp $75 per K x 16 = $1200

Internet 9x19 nickel brass $20 per K x 16 = $320

Internet 9x19 brass brass $8 per K x 16 = $128

Cost of nickel vs brass is nothing compared to Super vs 9Major.

Edited October 11, 2005 by eric nielsen

[rtr]

I shoot major 9, only wish I could shoot 22K rounds per year.

I think the one thing your missing is how many times you can reload a case, 9mm can be unsafe if reloaded too many times to major, .38 super I believe can be reloaded more times safely.

[diehli]

I dunno 'bout the rest of the 9 Major shooters, but I don't reuse my brass. That takes the total up to $440 and $160 for nickel and brass based on your numbers. Looks like I've still got $760 to make it to the lower Super/Comp numbers.

[XRe]

You guys need to get better at scrounging brass, and convince your local clubs to start picking brass, too.

Previously, shooting .38 SC, I bought a total of 3000 new cases. I shot several major, lost brass matches (1 Nationals, 1 NA Champs, 3 GA State matches, 1 A6). I *did* get some brass back from 2 GA State matches, having RO'ed those. I put about 25K through the gun in 2.5 years. When I sold it, I still had 500 new cases. I counted 10 loadings in a particular batch of cases - I'd lose them before I shot them out.

That was w/ 181PF ammo, BTW.

Total spent on brass for 25K rounds was about $350.

[AWLAZS]

I have been shooting .38 super for the past ten years or so. I have only bought 2000 pieces of brass. I have about 500 unfired cases still.

How much you get back at the monthly club match depends on who you shoot with. I shoot only one or two lost brass matches. I RO at one lost brass match and end up with half a bucket or so of brass

[Kingman]

I buy brass at $10 per k shipped and I don't ever pick it up. But I shoot major 9 now. When I shot super I hated to disrupt the flow of local matches even picking up brass so I was kicking out that $100 + per month in brass lost. Most locals average about 150 rds here and tack on misc losses, major matches, reshoots it gets old.

If anyone wants old major 9 brass that was used to push 115's I know where their is a hell of a pile at my practice range that I personally won't reuse.

[eric nielsen]

Yep. There were years where I shot at least 10,000 rounds and only bought 3000 new cases of 38super. But that was prior to 2002, and we all picked up each other's brass. I used to swipe every primer w/red Sharpie & at matches I'd say, "The nickel super with red primers is mine" & that worked. Back then.

So far I've bought 5000 cases of nickel 9x19 - $70 - in six months. It'll probably last me another couple months. I look on the calender and pick out about 2 matches per month I want to go to, although I'm easy driving distance from 6 or 7. About half those matches don't do classifiers. Might've made M-LTD if they did. That & the Mrs. keeps me at home more these days.

[Matt Cheely]

I get 8000 once fired 9mm's from a local guy at $50 a pop. Still have about 12,000 sitting in the basement in buckets. I never have to pick up brass, and that $1000 difference means that I can have another 10 thousand rounds of loaded ammo to shoot. That's big!

I figure it costs me $87.30 per k for 9mm major.

125gr. JHP zero over 8grs. 3n37 with WSR primers.

8000 cases at $50 = $.0063 per round

6 lbs. 3n37 for $110 = $.0209

5000 primers at $68 = $.0136

1000 bullets at $46.50 = .0465

Per round = $.0873

Per 1000 = $87.30

Bring on the 9 Major!

[j1b]

This is the very reason I'm looking at production.

$200 for 2,000 rounds. I figure about 15,000 rounds next year - so $1,400 or so in ammo.

Lost brass in match - $500

Lost bullets in match - $500

Lost powder in match - $200

Lost primers in match - $200

Not wanting, needing, or desiring to pick up the brass - priceless

J

[shred]

I buy brass at $10 per k shipped and I don't ever pick it up.  ...

If anyone wants old major 9 brass that was used to push 115's I know where their is a hell of a pile at my practice range that I personally won't reuse.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thus a problem.. if somebody picks it up and sells it for $10/K to other unsuspecting shooters. Be very sure your internet 'once-fired' really is.

I shot 20K rounds this year, and bought 3000 pcs of Supercomp brass for $300. 1000 of that was for the World Shoot, which I now have back. With a good marking scheme, and proper choice of squadmates you don't lose much.

Anybody that's serious will want to shoot new or truly once-fired brass at major matches, so budget accordingly there too.

FWIW I spent more on primers this year than I did on brass.

[Azone41]

I shoot 38 super in open I mark my brass for local matches and practice and pick it up after the match and I don't lose much. People talk about how cheap 9mm is @ 10.00 per 1000 I can assure you my brass cost is less then that when you figure the amount of times I reload my brass. I also work 2 large matches each year and pick up about a five gal bucket of super each year. I clean it sort it and use it for lost brass matches throughout the year.

[diehli]

Maybe part of the difference is that the 9 shooters tend to not—or, at least, not want to—pick up brass. How I hate brassing.

[diehli]

BTW Eric, I got a minimum of 25,325 rounds fired if you figure no practice the week of a big match. 27075 if you do practice, based on your numbers.

[ChuckS]

I shoot 38 super in open I mark my brass for local matches and practice and pick it up after the match and I don't lose much. People talk about how cheap 9mm is @ 10.00 per 1000 I can assure you my brass cost is less then that when you figure the amount of times I reload my brass. I also work 2 large matches each year and pick up about a five gal bucket of super each year. I clean it sort it and use it for lost brass matches throughout the year.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How many times do you reload your super cases?

[Harmon]

love shooting the super, but hate picking brass up...still ordering parts for the major 9 open gun

ive loaded supercomp range brass 10X and more without a failure.

armscor seems to last about 5X

remchester super +p seems to last a touch longer but not as long as the starline.

i have never seen a worn out TJ brass though...

[eric nielsen]

Thanks 300# - I meant to say 300 rds practice [2x150] each week. Either way, if you shoot that much you're pretty much married to your Dillon press & the brass tumbler is your love child.

Bullets powder & primers can run you nearly 2grand for a year like that too. Which is still cheap compared to golf or flying or owning a boat.

[redmercury2]

My STARLINE 38 SUPERCOMP BRASS lasts at least 12-15 reloads before a case neck split or i just chuck it cause i cant read the markings on the case

headstamp.

The ditched 9mm brass is a prob on the range for those who shoot other cal

ibres,as we have to sort through it to get our brass back.

[Carlos]

XRE wrote: "You guys need to get better at scrounging brass, and convince your local clubs to start picking brass, too."

The same factors keep coming up whenever we debate the issue of: picking up brass at local matches. I think its a settled issue that Sectional, Area and Nationals are lost brass matches due to the limited abount of time that we have to run many shooters.

Some other facotrs to consider:

-Blazer aluminum case ammo

-Wolf steel case ammo (I'd never use it persoanlly due to smell, but I often see it used indoors where distance is quite limited <25 yards)

-Surplus Berdan primed ammo

As a match director, how do I justify to these folks & the non-reloaders the need to pick up every single shooter's brass during the match when many of the people doing the picking are simply handed back non-reloadable trash?

The other difficulty is that for many local clubs, we reward volunteer RO's & other volunteers w/ brass picked up after the match. The ROs & volunteers tend to be the ones dedicated enough to the sport to reload, while the majority of shooters are often just passing through the match, the sport, or the Area (the D.C. area residents often move).

This seems to be a debate between the .38 Super/.45ACP shooters and those shooting 9mm (minor & major) or .40 (which is available & cheap). Funny thing is, if we looked back 15 years, MOST of the brass would have been either .45 or .38 Super. Today, it is looking more like 9 & 40.

Regards,

D.C. Johnson

[shred]

When .40 brass got cheap, people quit brassing at local matches. Before that, brassing was de-rigeur. Leaving a ton of trash (Wolf, Blazer, stretched 9mm, cracked Super, etc) all over the range is not exactly polite either, unless your range is paved with brass and you don't mind a little rollerskate action when moving.

TJ brass will start cracking around the 15 loadings mark, though I rarely keep track.

[XRe]

As a match director, how do I justify to these folks & the non-reloaders the need to pick up every single shooter's brass during the match when many of the people doing the picking are simply handed back non-reloadable trash?

Because, eventually, you'll either have to pick the brass up anyway, or you'll be knee deep in trash on all your bays. If you have 6-8 people on a squad, it's easy to have 1 or 2 picking brass after each shooter. If the shooter wants it back, give it to him. If not, hit the trash w/ the trash, and give the rest to someone who wants it (or trash it, if no one does). That seems to be a lot less effort than having to organize a work party to clean up the trash later...

In this area, brass left on the ground tends to get destroyed - if it rains, the dust on the range gets impregnated on the insides of the brass to the point where it won't come out after several hours in the tumbler. For bulk reloading, it's now effectively useless..... Gotta get it up that day if you want to use it again...

The other difficulty is that for many local clubs, we reward volunteer RO's & other volunteers w/ brass picked up after the match.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So they have to go pick it all up, if they want it?? I guess you guys have ROs stay w/ the stages on your local matches?? Every local match is considered lost brass (except that those that volunteer get a lot of brass back at the end)??

I don't mean to rekindle an old debate... My point is just that, if you pick up your brass, you can exceed the cost savings of buying once fired brass, and leaving it on the range....

[Newbie]

I pay $167 delivered for 2,000 Remington Peters 38 super +P. Doesn't sound too bad to me. I pick up my brass, actually we all help pick up each other's brass at local matches so there's not much lost there. I did shoot many major matches this year and lost the brass but that's the cost of playing the game.

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/...leitemid=788843

[Kingman]

My practice brass stays on the practice range. I rake it up and scoop shovel it out occasionally. Though I do pick up the white box when I resort to using it for practice. I am also the only person that uses my range so it does not really get to pile too much.

[sargenv]

In my case, a lot of local shooters are switching either to 38 supercomp or 9 major and they all had a few k of 38 super brass that was still good but now had no use for. Since I still shoot 38 super.. I came into about 6k or so, give or take of 38 super brass. Overall I've bought about 2800 new Super brass in the year since I've had my open blaster. I generally tend to use new brass for load development and switch to used brass for local matches. I've only shot 1 lost brass match with it and since I ro'ed, I got most of it back. I will probably never switch to 9 major and people talk about hating to pick up brass, well, unless you shoot moon clipped revolvers, brassing will pretty much always be a part of this sport. I mark my brass with a striping tool from hosercam.com (cheap advertising for one of the forum members) and I tend to get my brass back even a week or two later.

Anyway, thought I'd add that in there. I still reload my own 9mm (I bought 10k of plated 124's for like $29/k) and I still have 6 k of them. I can pick up all the 9 mm brass at the local slow fire range since a lot of those people shoot all that cheap white box stuff and never pick it up. Buy 9 brass? are you nuts?

Vince

[George]

I cannot remember the last time I got brass back at anything but a club match. Since I mostly go to major matches nowadays, brass winds up being a total loss for me. My tumbler and media separator have been on vacation for a long, long time now ;-)

[eric nielsen]

Vince

I was curious if you or any other shooters have had any problems [like cases stuck in the chamber] when using marked brass. 2 or 3 colored stripes is about the only way we can find more than half the brass we shoot here. The reason why is that you get very little chance to brass until the stages are torn town & the match results are being added up.

Right now my search for an affordable [and available] STI or SV is getting frustrating and it looks like the best option is to buy one from a buddy of mine - its a Supercomp & needs 11grains+ of powder with a 125 bullet to make Major. If I do that it can save me more than 1000 dollars, which obviously buys a lot of brass.

Does the Striper work after the rounds are case-lubed and loaded?

Thanks