Where is the love for Stock II ?

[gnappi]

 

13 hours ago, Pippu_Paladin said:

I love the look of them, I just wish they were Nickel or in a perfect world stainless steel instead of chrome plated.

Nickel in lieu of Chrome? That's a surprise. The EAA nickel finish tarnishes something awful, especially if it's carried. 

 

 

[Sliv2]

I owned two Mink SP01 Shadows. I loved them. The practice gun surpassed 100,00 rounds. 

 

I own three Shadow 2s. I love them. The main practice gun has surpassed 60,000 rounds.

 

I just bought my first Stock II. My intent was to shoot it for fun. But, now I'm considering selling my CZs and replacing them with Tanfos.

[gnappi]

15 hours ago, Sliv2 said:

I owned two Mink SP01 Shadows. I loved them. The practice gun surpassed 100,00 rounds. 

 

I own three Shadow 2s. I love them. The main practice gun has surpassed 60,000 rounds.

 

I just bought my first Stock II. My intent was to shoot it for fun. But, now I'm considering selling my CZs and replacing them with Tanfos.

 

The CZ's as you know are really well done, so that's a curious thing to say especially since you had such good luck with the CZ's, but this is a Tanfo page so I guess it's no surprise. 

 

In my case I had a Tanfo before CZ came on the scene and got user traction so I prefer my Tanfos over my SP-01 which is just a fun shooter, no more.

 

For me it would be very hard and impractical to move to CZ... many reasons include the Tanfo have more platform / caliber and finish options, better (IMO) stock sights, as well as rail-less models for in general less buckazoids in the cost department. I don't mind the fairly inexpensive mags either! Add to that, they're Italian, lika me! 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Sliv2]

1 hour ago, gnappi said:

 

The CZ's as you know are really well done, so that's a curious thing to say especially since you had such good luck with the CZ's, but this is a Tanfo page so I guess it's no surprise. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Absolutely. The excellent QC and reliability of CZ has kept me around (and very well may continue to do so). However, I'm so impressed by the handling of this Stock II that it's hard for me to continue to write them off. With regards to hand fit and personal preferences, this gun does certain things better than my Shadows. 

[Pippu_Paladin]

On 5/22/2020 at 11:17 AM, gnappi said:

 

Nickel in lieu of Chrome? That's a surprise. The EAA nickel finish tarnishes something awful, especially if it's carried. 

 

 

 

Huh, my Witness is just my home defense gun though after I customize it a but I am planning on it being my open carry/BBQ gun. I've put a couple thousand rounds through it with no discoloration but probably nothing compared to people on here. As for Chrome vs. Nickel I once again don't have a ton of personal experience of empirical evidence, though I had heard from people that the "Wonder" finish holds up remarkably well though such anecdotes are probably suspect. That and I don't really like the look of Chrome guns, and as I said before I really wish there was a stainless steel option. 

[waktasz]

On 5/21/2020 at 8:44 PM, Polymer said:

I think the bigger question is why Stock 2 over the stock 3, lim pro, stock master?!

 

Stock 3 has a worse finish and no bull barrel. Stock Master seems to be the hotness, but it's new on the market and I haven't seen one in person yet, although I'd love to have one. 

Limt pro doesn't have the heavy frame OR bull barrel, so it's just for IDPA or something.

[IHAVEGAS]

16 hours ago, waktasz said:

 

Limt pro doesn't have the heavy frame OR bull barrel, so it's just for IDPA or something.

 

Or winning the USPSA production nationals, of course you still need skills like Alex Gutt unfortunately.

[waktasz]

Good point, forgot about that year.

 

[IHAVEGAS]

13 hours ago, waktasz said:

Good point, forgot about that year.

 

 

I ran the lim pro and stock 2 sided by side for a while.

With my eyes closed I could not tell which gun I had by feel, and the difference in sight radius was so small that it did not seem to make any measurable difference in my shooting. At that point in time the LP's were not available new and worth more money than a used S2 so I sold the LP. Eventually ended up with the S3, I think they look like butt however I like the weight. 

[tdp88]

I think the main issue with Tanfo is the stock trigger is a lot heavier than the Shadow 2 but I had Derek work mine over at the pro shop and they are incredible. Light and smooth without any of the finicky Patriot Defense springs. I think the only springs he changed were for a Henning plunger, lightened firing pin, and 10lb recoil spring. 

[Fasthenk65]

7 hours ago, tdp88 said:

I think the main issue with Tanfo is the stock trigger is a lot heavier than the Shadow 2 but I had Derek work mine over at the pro shop and they are incredible. Light and smooth without any of the finicky Patriot Defense springs. I think the only springs he changed were for a Henning plunger, lightened firing pin, and 10lb recoil spring. 

If the gun needed a lightened firing pin spring it definitely has a light hammer spring...

[tdp88]

If the gun needed a lightened firing pin spring it definitely has a light hammer spring...

Yeah I forgot about the 13lb Wolff. Good catch


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[Fasthenk65]

2 minutes ago, tdp88 said:

Yeah I forgot about the 13lb Wolff. Good catch


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No probs with primers? Only federal??

[tdp88]

No probs with primers? Only federal??

I used Winchester primers and only had 2 light strikes in practice ammo, but the primers were extremely high. Im not sure how many rounds I shot between them, but I know it was over 10,000.


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[99mpower]

On 6/5/2020 at 5:36 PM, Fasthenk65 said:

No probs with primers? Only federal??

 

all i run are win primers in my worked over Stock 2s by J&L. 14# hammer spring, and extended fire pin have allowed me to run whatever primer i want

[mrd]

This is my Stock 2 AU that I've been running for almost five years now, the latest three in Limited. It used to be in chrome, now it is ceracoted in Cobolt and Armor Black. This pic was taken when it was just back from the paint job, haven't even the front sight in place. Since then I've swapped out the Unica mag release for a custom one to avoid accidental mag ejections.

 

[MemphisMechanic]

On 5/23/2020 at 10:19 AM, Sliv2 said:

Absolutely. The excellent QC and reliability of CZ has kept me around (and very well may continue to do so). However, I'm so impressed by the handling of this Stock II that it's hard for me to continue to write them off. With regards to hand fit and personal preferences, this gun does certain things better than my Shadows. 

That is the crux of the issue. A Shadow 2 is a “respring it and go” proposition unless you personally feel like doing more trigger work, but it’s hardly necessary.

 

A Stock 2 is a tremendous handling gun if it fits your hands, but it requires reliability tuning, and the 9+ pound DA trigger with it’s sandpaper-like smoothness pretty much mandate that you do some amount of sincere work to the gun.

 

And due to their wandering tolerances... you can’t just drop a Cajun-esque kit into and go.

[FALAR]

2 hours ago, MemphisMechanic said:

That is the crux of the issue. A Shadow 2 is a “respring it and go” proposition unless you personally feel like doing more trigger work, but it’s hardly necessary.

 

A Stock 2 is a tremendous handling gun if it fits your hands, but it requires reliability tuning, and the 9+ pound DA trigger with it’s sandpaper-like smoothness pretty much mandate that you do some amount of sincere work to the gun.

 

And due to their wandering tolerances... you can’t just drop a Cajun-esque kit into and go.

 

Couldn't agree more.  Sure, there is some variation on the CZ guns too but after setting up about......7 Shadow 2s now with the CZC 12lb hammer spring, extended firing pin, and reduced firing pin spring and getting a 5.5-6lb DA and 2.75-3lb SA I can't see why anyone would fiddle with one any more beyond that.  Also I've never had that combination fail to ignite even the hardest primers and have tested on Winchester M882 and IMI 158 grain, even though it was tedious I did all of the testing DA.

 

To me that is the main drawback of the Tanfoglio---while they implemented a superior FPB (which is why the good CZ guns omit it) the change to the hammer spring was a mistake, IMO.  Of course a Stock II or Stock III will still generally have a lower cost of entry but will still require more work to get a usable DA since they stack so badly compared to the CZs.

 

I know there is a lot of back and forth between different fanboys but as I own both (and will soon have some Jerichos as well---can't wait to examine them as they seem like a nice blend of the two) and like both for different reasons so consider myself to be objective.  The Tanfoglios are available in .38 Super and 10mm (yes, I know there are now 2-3k dollar CZC guns that appear to be using Tanfoglio mags but that isn't apples to apples) as well as hard chrome finishes on some models and some ergonomic differences many will enjoy.

 

I've seen people list parts availability as an issue with Tanfoglios but with Patriot Defense in the game along with Henning, BSPS, etc I don't really see it as an issue.  Factory support though gets a CLEAR edge to CZ as well since EAA has a well earned reputation.  Consistency from gun to gun also clearly favors CZs as you noted.

 

As someone that limits what kind of DIY things I'll do what I appreciate about the CZs is how easy I can set them up myself---hammer spring, firing pin and spring, grips and done.  All things I can and will do quickly and easily.  Front sight changes though, no.

 

With Tanfoglios I have no issue installing Dawsons up front due to the different retaining method but all the work it takes to get a nice DA pull is way beyond me so I have to outsource that to Patriot Defense.  I'm very happy with all 4 guns they've done for me and will send them work in the future.

[IHAVEGAS]

I am too fussy I suppose. To get the Shadow 2 where I was happy with it I ended up doing all the same stuff that I had done to my Sp01 and CZ75 variants (fp, springs, disco, sear, hammer), certainly do not have to have that good of a trigger and out of the box the Shadow 2 is certainly a lot closer to right than an Sp01. If I didn't already have cheaper CZ's with better triggers when the Shadow 2 came out then I might not have felt the urge to go the full monty. 

 

Tanfo's are fiddly, but with resources like the excellent Memphis Mechanic video I would not scare somebody away from the trigger work. I also would not deter anybody from just having PD or equivalent make it right for them, depends on whether you enjoy the work I think. I run mine at an honest and reliable 4 1/2 lb double action pull, but that requires deep seated federals and refreshing the hammer spring about every 5000 rounds. 

[MemphisMechanic]

3 hours ago, IHAVEGAS said:

I am too fussy I suppose... 

 

....I run mine at an honest and reliable 4 1/2 lb double action pull, but that requires deep seated federals and refreshing the hammer spring about every 5000 rounds. 

Yeah, we’re after different things.

 

I wanted my Tanfos to run CCI primers in dusty muddy conditions, and/or go 2,500 rounds between cleanings. 
 

That meant a good glass-smooth rolling break to my 6.25 pound double actions, which I never minded and found quite shootable.

[FALAR]

I'm also good with 6 to 6.5lb DA and want 100% reliability with even the hardest primers. 

[Pippu_Paladin]

On 6/28/2020 at 12:52 PM, mrd said:

This is my Stock 2 AU that I've been running for almost five years now, the latest three in Limited. It used to be in chrome, now it is ceracoted in Cobolt and Armor Black. This pic was taken when it was just back from the paint job, haven't even the front sight in place. Since then I've swapped out the Unica mag release for a custom one to avoid accidental mag ejections.

 

 

Did you have to strip it first or did you just coat over the chrome?

[mrd]

Just now, Pippu_Paladin said:

 

Did you have to strip it first or did you just coat over the chrome?

 

It was coated over the chrome, seems to hold up well. Just a little wear around the nose, from the holster. 

[MemphisMechanic]

8 minutes ago, Pippu_Paladin said:

 

Did you have to strip it first or did you just coat over the chrome?

You can coat over the chrome, provided you follow Cerakote’s recommended surface prep which involves sandblasting any surface before you coat it. They’re very specific about how much tooth a gun needs to have in order for the finish to hold up longterm.

 

I’ve cerakoted over anodizing, duracoat, bare steel, bluing, and chrome. They’ve all performed well once the gun was sandblasted with the correct media. Likewise, I’ve seen plenty of finished fail if the blasting portion isn’t done, or surface prep is rushed.

My old blued, then Cerakoted, Stock 3:

 

Edited June 30, 2020 by MemphisMechanic

[Pippu_Paladin]

7 hours ago, MemphisMechanic said:

You can coat over the chrome, provided you follow Cerakote’s recommended surface prep which involves sandblasting any surface before you coat it. They’re very specific about how much tooth a gun needs to have in order for the finish to hold up longterm.

 

I’ve cerakoted over anodizing, duracoat, bare steel, bluing, and chrome. They’ve all performed well once the gun was sandblasted with the correct media. Likewise, I’ve seen plenty of finished fail if the blasting portion isn’t done, or surface prep is rushed.

My old blued, then Cerakoted, Stock 3:

 

 

Wow, that looks really good! That makes me wonder if a silver-ish cerakote finish would be a better choice than NP3+ coating for a black gun I want to be silver...