Hammer vs Striker Fired Guns. USPSA

[Colby_Bedell]

I am seeing more and more people that are shooting CZ Shadow 2's and Tanfoglio's in CO. I know in production that the Shadow 2's are the most popular gun. Why do people choose Hammer guns over striker fired? I am thinking about getting one for CO. Right now I have a Sig x5 legion and loving it. Should I switch, if so why? If no why not? 

 

Thanks

[dansedgli]

Better triggers. More weight.

 

I liked my shadow 2 more than my tungsten filled X5 with gray guns kit because the reset was very short in comparison, it was flatter in my hands and shot better groups at 25-50 yards too.

 

 

 

 

[SGT_Schultz]

I prefer a soft, rolling break on a trigger and my CZ P-09 and 75BD deliver it in single action.  They also has a very smooth, linear, 7.5 - 8 lb double action that I can pull through very quickly without disturbing the sights.

 

For Carry Optics I decided to try a P-10F, mostly because it came with the optics plate cut already.  It's also my first striker fired pistol.  The very hard wall/break of striker fired pistols feels weird and I'm not sure I'll ever get used to it.

 

Now I'm planning to have my P-09's slide milled for an SRO.

[robchavous]

My opinion is that for most people a heavier steel gun covers up some errors in fundamentals. It's easier for most people to shoot a heavy 9mm more accurately.



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[motosapiens]

I think people just like to spend money and play with fancier more precise things made of metal instead of plastic. There is something to be said tho for a gun that just plain runs. The x5 legions I have handled were pretty impressive. The only real reason to go with a shadow2 is because you like it better and the extra grand or so won't cause any hardships for you. I don't believe it's any advantage in competition (if it were, perhaps a shadow shooter would have won at least one single national championship).

[motosapiens]

1 hour ago, SGT_Schultz said:

I prefer a soft, rolling break on a trigger and my CZ P-09 and 75BD deliver it in single action.  They also has a very smooth, linear, 7.5 - 8 lb double action that I can pull through very quickly without disturbing the sights.

 

For Carry Optics I decided to try a P-10F, mostly because it came with the optics plate cut already.  It's also my first striker fired pistol.  The very hard wall/break of striker fired pistols feels weird and I'm not sure I'll ever get used to it.

 

 not sure what you are describing is necessarily a characteristic of striker vs hammer. fwiw, I also really like the slightly rolling break of the customized cz's in single action, and I shoot it well, but a $150 drop-in trigger kit on an xdm or sig is imho every bit as good and easy to shoot.

[SGT_Schultz]

1 minute ago, motosapiens said:

I don't believe it's any advantage in competition (if it were, perhaps a shadow shooter would have won at least one single national championship).

 

I think you're being a bit pedantic.  How many national titles has Ben Stoeger won in Production?  He doesn't shoot a Shadow 2, he shoots something that is virtually identical.

[motosapiens]

1 minute ago, SGT_Schultz said:

 

I think you're being a bit pedantic.  How many national titles has Ben Stoeger won in Production?  He doesn't shoot a Shadow 2, he shoots something that is virtually identical.

at the same time, he has *barely* edged out guys shooting crappy plastic guns who only shot the division a couple times a year.

[SGT_Schultz]

Just now, motosapiens said:

 

 I also really like the slightly rolling break of the customized cz's in single action, and I shoot it well, but a $150 drop-in trigger kit on an xdm or sig is imho every bit as good and easy to shoot.

 

You're probably right, I'm sure.  But since I already have a tuned P-09 and a drawer full of mags that fit it, it's cheaper to have its slide milled for an SRO.

[SGT_Schultz]

5 minutes ago, motosapiens said:

at the same time, he has *barely* edged out guys shooting crappy plastic guns who only shot the division a couple times a year.

 

Which makes the point.

 

At that level the winner doesn't just blow all other GMs out of the water.  The talent is gap is very narrow and something that provides a small edge, like a heavy all-steel pistol with a sweet-ass DA/SA trigger, can be the difference between national champ and also-ran.

Edited February 24, 2020 by SGT_Schultz

[motosapiens]

4 minutes ago, SGT_Schultz said:

 

You're probably right, I'm sure.  But since I already have a tuned P-09 and a drawer full of mags that fit it, it's cheaper to have its slide milled for an SRO.

if you like the gun, it's the right way to go.

[SGT_Schultz]

2 minutes ago, motosapiens said:

if you like the gun, it's the right way to go.

I do

 

Yesterday we had an outlaw all steel match and I shot the P-09 in limited and the P-10F in CO.  I beat myself with the P-10 but only because of its sights.  Had I had a dot on both my total time with the 09 would have been lower for sure.

 

I can't focus on the front sight any more.

Edited February 24, 2020 by SGT_Schultz

[motosapiens]

if you need a spare p09, i'm selling one, unfortunately it came to me milled for fastfire/docter/vortex-venom and I was too cheap to try to have that fixed/adjusted. Nice gun. Has never had a malfunction.

[motosapiens]

18 minutes ago, SGT_Schultz said:

At that level the winner doesn't just blow all other GMs out of the water.  The talent is gap is very narrow and something that provides a small edge, like a heavy all-steel pistol with a sweet-ass DA/SA trigger, can be the difference between national champ and also-ran.

 

I'd say what provides the edge is a gun you like, and feel comfortable with. could be a heavy steel gun, or it could be something else. I like a heavy steel gun for limited major, but i'm not so picky when shooting minor. A lighter gun allows you to do just about every gun movement noticeably quicker (draws, transitions, reloads).

 

Ben likes the tanfo, good for him. Nils and dave chose something else for the few weeks they shot production, and that didn't work too bad either.

[B_RAD]

As someone who changes guns a lot, I’d tell the OP if he likes the X5 he should stick with it. If he thinks he’d like the Shadow 2 more, then switch. 
 

I doubt he’d shoot one better than the other. Pick the one you like the best.  

[Colby_Bedell]

1 hour ago, motosapiens said:

I think people just like to spend money and play with fancier more precise things made of metal instead of plastic. There is something to be said tho for a gun that just plain runs. The x5 legions I have handled were pretty impressive. The only real reason to go with a shadow2 is because you like it better and the extra grand or so won't cause any hardships for you. I don't believe it's any advantage in competition (if it were, perhaps a shadow shooter would have won at least one single national championship).

I think its very unfair to judge a gun off its performance at a nationals. Like CO nationals Max Michel is the only person to hold that title and there is a good reason for it, its not his gun. And the same goes for Ben Stoeger for production.   

[hump]

I just switched from a Shadow 1 to a Canik for CO and my times are better doing drills I use to measure my performance. The double action first shot caused me issues with the CZ.

I did replace the trigger and some springs on the Canik to get the trigger to 2.4 lbs. 

[motosapiens]

51 minutes ago, Colby_Bedell said:

I think its very unfair to judge a gun off its performance at a nationals. Like CO nationals Max Michel is the only person to hold that title and there is a good reason for it, its not his gun. And the same goes for Ben Stoeger for production.   

that was sort of my point. 

[SGT_Schultz]

47 minutes ago, hump said:

I just switched from a Shadow 1 to a Canik for CO and my times are better doing drills I use to measure my performance. The double action first shot caused me issues with the CZ.

I did replace the trigger and some springs on the Canik to get the trigger to 2.4 lbs. 

 

Did you do any trigger work to the CZ?  It didn't take too many Cajun parts, and some break in time, to get my DAs so smooth that you can pull through them very quickly with less disruption than a striker trigger with a hard wall.

 

I also don't think that drills are not a very good indicator of how things will turn out in a match.

[hump]

My CZ has a 5.4 lb double action and a 2.1lb single action. The trigger was done by CZ Custom. 

Edited February 24, 2020 by hump
Spelling

[bimmer1980]

A light and clean breaking (DA)/SA Trigger is (in my eyes) much easier to use if you are new or aren´t that good.

A havier gun is a bit easier to control, especially if you don´t have a good grip and recoil control.

 

I think the better you get, the more it evens out. Easier transitions of plastic guns will come to play and the trigger and the recoil control issn´t that big of a thing anymore.  

 

I see people that shoot much faster and more accurate with plastic guns than i ever could with my 900gramm shadow trigger.   

 

Now i´m having a kind of hard time to get used to the xfive trigger.  

[Joe4d]

you'd think there would be more striker fired steel guns out there.
How ever I guess if you look at it it is probably a cost and tooling thing... When was the last steel gun that isnt 50 years old been introduced on a mass market aspect ? All the new guns tend to be Plastic. 

[B_RAD]

I predict lighter striker fired guns will make a comeback. 
 

striker fired guns are improving as far as trigger pull goes. The same pull every time is easier/better than a DA/SA. How is it not. I know there’s gonna be a lot of responses to that. 

[nate89]

The DA trigger is such a non-issue, especially with how people are slicking them up.  I have done numerous timed tests between striker and hammer guns, and I have yet to see any significant difference in times.  For background, I did shoot revolvers for a bit, and have shot a 226 as my main match gun for several years, so it's just not a big deal.  For someone just getting into shooting, sure that might be a harder trigger to use.

[MHicks]

If the lighter plastic guns are better for transitions wouldn't more of the shooters who have mastered the fundamentals, grip and trigger control, gravitate back to them?