mandatory reload between arrays or after an array

[davsco]

so if COF says mandatory reload between arrays, or shoot one array, mandatory reload, then shoot next array, what happens if one shoots the first array, reloads, then takes a makeup shot or shots on the first array either before or after engaging the 2nd array?  i've had a MD say once a reload is done that satisfies any future reload requirements but then another say that reloads are required when switching back and forth between arrays.

[konkapot]

I can't cite the rule off the top of my head but I believe your second source is correct; if the reload needs to be done between arrays then...…...it needs to be done after one array and before the other. 

[driver8M3]

Depends on how the WSB is written. Some WSBs say you need to reload anytime you switch arrays. Others just say you must perform a mandatory reload after engaging the first array.

[RadarTech]

M There are some interesting issues here...
1. WHAT does the WSB require? The phrasing is important..
. ie if it says reload AFTER array 1–then if you shoot array 1 and then reload but then re-engage array 1 you have then re-engaged array 1 and need to reload again... but if you shoot array 1 reload shoot array 2 then send a makeup on array 1 — it gets really squirrelly... you could do a reload to comply with the WSB, but it won’t affect your time.... cause you won’t be firing shots... but an astute RO might assign procesurals for failure to comply with the WSB... 10.2.2

or

if it says engage array 1 and then reload before engaging array 2.. this is a real gamer statement... you could fire 1 shot at ARRAY 1, reload and then engage the rest of 1 and 2...


In the end... the WSB is very important.....

[elguapo]

Best to leave that to IDPA.  Problem solved.

[45 Raven]

1.  

46 minutes ago, elguapo said:

Best to leave that to IDPA.  Problem solved.

IDPA Rule Book - Page 23 - "Stage Design Rules" - Rule 6-6-23:

 

6.6.23 Reloads shall not be mandated in a Course of Fire. All mandated reloads, topping off, etc. must be performed off the clock

Edited April 25, 2019 by 45 Raven
Correct grammar error

[elguapo]

11 minutes ago, 45 Raven said:

1.  

IDPA Rule Book - Page 23 - "Stage Design Rules" - Rule 6-6-23:

 

6.6.23 Reloads shall not be mandated in a Course of Fire. All mandated reloads, topping off, etc. must be performed off the clock

 

Aw s#!t

[broadside72]

Which game are you playing? That will help determine the rule.

In USPSA if it's a standard exercise or classifier, they are usually Virgina count when mandatory reloads are required. So the make up shots cause even more ruling headache

[race1911]

In IPSC the WSB usually just says "Mandatory reload between 1st and 2nd array" or "Mandatory reload after 6th shot" and you have satisfied the requirement after your reload.....you may then shoot whatever 2nd array or remaining shots necessary including any makeup shots of either array

[davsco]

17 hours ago, broadside72 said:

Which game are you playing? That will help determine the rule.
 

uspsa

[Corrado_kid]

In for the proper answer, I’m curious what’s the correct answer. I recently did this on a classifier. Engaged the first 6 shots (3 metric targets), called a mike on the last shot and did the reload indexed on the steel, then shot a make up on paper and shot both steel. No penalty was called, I shot the classifier like so it didn’t even count in my classification. 

[ChuckS]

2 hours ago, Corrado_kid said:

In for the proper answer, I’m curious what’s the correct answer. I recently did this on a classifier. Engaged the first 6 shots (3 metric targets), called a mike on the last shot and did the reload indexed on the steel, then shot a make up on paper and shot both steel. No penalty was called, I shot the classifier like so it didn’t even count in my classification. 

What was the classifier?

[Corrado_kid]

18-07

[broadside72]

18-07 says engage pp1 & pp2 or T1-T3, perform mandatory reload and engage remaining targets

IMHO, you need to reload only after you put at least one shot at each target in one array or the other. After that everything is fair game. Engaging is at least one shot on a target

So shoot at each steel once, falling or not, reload and pick up everything remaining, including leftover steel.

[Diver123]

You can shoot at the steel till it falls. No reloaded is mandated until you move onto the next target array or until you have shot the minimum required number of shots at a target for it to be engaged. So you can shoot more than once at the steel without a reload.

 

[Corrado_kid]

I shot the paper first (6 shots), reloaded  called a mike on the last shot on the paper. Indexed on the steel, transitioned to the last paper target fired an acceptable shot, then transitioned back and hit both steel 1 for 1. 

[ChuckS]

1 hour ago, Corrado_kid said:

I shot the paper first (6 shots), reloaded  called a mike on the last shot on the paper. Indexed on the steel, transitioned to the last paper target fired an acceptable shot, then transitioned back and hit both steel 1 for 1. 

Let me see if I have this right. You shot 6 shots at the paper targets, reloaded, shot one shot at a paper target and then shot the 2 steel targets? If so, you did not reload between the paper targets and the steel targets.

 

 

[driver8M3]

11 minutes ago, ChuckS said:

Let me see if I have this right. You shot 6 shots at the paper targets, reloaded, shot one shot at a paper target and then shot the 2 steel targets? If so, you did not reload between the paper targets and the steel targets.

 

 

You used the word "between," but the WSB does not. It looks to me like he complied with the WSB.

 

engage T1-T3 (or P1 & P2) - he did this

 

perform a mandatory reload - he did this

 

engage the remaining targets - he did this

[broadside72]

You used the word "between," but the WSB does not. It looks to me like he complied with the WSB.
 
engage T1-T3 (or P1 & P2) - he did this
 
perform a mandatory reload - he did this
 
engage the remaining targets - he did this

Exactly. Engage is at least one shot at a target. He engaged all targets in a single array then reloaded.

[ChuckS]

2 hours ago, broadside72 said:

10 hours ago, driver8M3 said:

You used the word "between," but the WSB does not. It looks to me like he complied with the WSB.
 
engage T1-T3 (or P1 & P2) - he did this
 
perform a mandatory reload - he did this
 
engage the remaining targets - he did this

Exactly. Engage is at least one shot at a target. He engaged all targets in a single array then reloaded.

Yup! Thanks...