147 blue bullet

[JakeG]

Hey guys I'm loading 147 blue bullet with 3.6 grains of CFE pistol I'm blowing some primers is this too hot? What grain do y'all recommend for CFE pistol?

Thanks Jake

[Catmanduex]

http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/pistol

 

It appears not too hot.

[oteroman]

How fast is your bullet going?


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[HesedTech]

What do you mean by “blowing some primers?”

 

What kind of primers?

How deep are you seating them?

What reloading press?

How many times has the brass been loaded?

Are you swaging the primer pockets?

Pictures?

 

Hard to solve an issue with out more info. 

[JakeG]

1 hour ago, HesedTech said:

What do you mean by “blowing some primers?”

 

What kind of primers?

How deep are you seating them?

What reloading press?

How many times has the brass been loaded?

Are you swaging the primer pockets?

Pictures?

 

Hard to solve an issue with out more info. 

 

Quote

 

 

Using Winchester small pistol

As far as my rcbs hand primer let's me

Using a Lee load master for powder and bullet seat and crimp

Once fired brass picked up at my range from Buddy's who bought factory ammo.

Not swaging 

Edited April 18, 2019 by JakeG

[JakeG]

Oal is 1.091

Blowing primers means I pull the trigger the projectile goes out the barrel the slide comes back the case goes flying and the primer stays on top of the next bullet coming in and hanged up the slide from going into battery 

 

Edited April 18, 2019 by JakeG

[HesedTech]

Thanks

 

The only two reasons I can think of for primers to come loose are worn oversized pockets or not seated properly. The picture you posted is a bit too fuzzy to tell anything, but if the brass is once used and not overly swaged (as you state) my only guess is something is not right with the seating process. 

 

I use WSP, have hand seated them with a Lee unit and currently use a 1050 for my loading needs, so experience with the RCBS is zero. Never had a problem with loose primers or having them “blow out” after ignition.

 

Do you have another seating method available? The Load Master has a primer seating station, if I remember correctly, have you tried that for your loads?

 

These things are tough to solve over a blog thread. 

Edited April 18, 2019 by HesedTech

[ClayBuster]

How accurate is your powder scale? Beam scale or digital? There's no reason that load should be blowing primers out of the cases.

[jmtyndall]

This isnt a good picture but those look way over pressure. What scale are you using? Remember that the Hodgdon data center loads are at 1.250" and you're 0.160" less than that.  Had a wrong setting on the data center.

You took a pretty good guess at reducing the load for your OAL length but the brass in those pictures look beat up. Could you maybe take a better picture? It should be clear enough we can read the headstamps

Edited April 19, 2019 by jmtyndall

[Tawadc95]

Case length?

To much head space can blow primers out.

[HesedTech]

Case length isn’t or shouldn’t be  an issue with modern 9 mm pistols. 

 

 

 

[jmtyndall]

Case length isn’t or shouldn’t be  an issue with modern 9 mm pistols. 
 
 
 

Agreed. The pistol holds the case against the breechface with the extractor. I've seen .380 cases loaded to 9mm spec shoot fine in 9mm pistols.

I think maybe something like a 38 super case might be so long it would cause issues but I doubt the recoil spring has enough power to chamber that in a 9x19 chamber

[JakeG]

Beam scale   could my oal have any thing to do with this?

[jmtyndall]

As I mentioned, yes. Generally I reduce 0.1gr per 0.010" length. That usually works fine when talking about small changes.

 

 

 

 

[BJB]

What 9mm is 1.250"?

[jmtyndall]

Actually I had something wrong set on hodgdon data center. Sorry.

Remember their data is based off a hollow point design, not your bullet so the OAL isn't a good reference for you. Also we usually use lead data for coated bullets, which is usually about 10% reduced over jacketed loads.

4.2 max reduced by 10% is about 3.8gr max. And you have a shortened OAL. Your brass is telling me you're over-pressure...I think, the picture is poor but I see extractor and breechface marks, primers blown out. Chrono data might help, but you said you don't have access to one. I'd drop down to 3.3gr and see what happens.

You need a chrono, you'll never know if you're making PF without it and chrono data can give semi-reliable pressure information if you track your SD

[elguapo]

2 hours ago, jmtyndall said:

Remember their data is based off a hollow point design, not your bullet so the OAL isn't a good reference for you. Also we usually use lead data for coated bullets, which is usually about 10% reduced over jacketed loads.

4.2 max reduced by 10% is about 3.8gr max. And you have a shortened OAL. Your brass is telling me you're over-pressure...I think, the picture is poor but I see extractor and breechface marks, primers blown out. Chrono data might help, but you said you don't have access to one. I'd drop down to 3.3gr and see what happens.

You need a chrono, you'll never know if you're making PF without it and chrono data can give semi-reliable pressure information if you track your SD

 

There it is

 

Reloading without a chronograph is like driving at night with the headlamps off

Edited April 19, 2019 by elguapo

[Chillywig]

On 4/17/2019 at 10:09 PM, JakeG said:

Oal is 1.091

Blowing primers means I pull the trigger the projectile goes out the barrel the slide comes back the case goes flying and the primer stays on top of the next bullet coming in and hanged up the slide from going into battery 

 

Oal is a bit short. Any reason you're loading this short? 

[HesedTech]

1.09 is a normal OAL for many pistols and considering what open shooters do with major PF 9mm it is doubtful 3.6 of CFE is over pressure. 

 

I use with 147 PD FMJ RN 1.14 3.5 grains of TG, which is “hotter” than CFE, to make minor with a Stock 2. Used to load 1.08” 147 coated with 3.2 grain of TG to make minor. 

 

I might also also add I loaded 124 FMJ HP Everglades at 4.2 grains of TG to make 130 PF same gun. Yes the case space is greater and therefore less pressure.

 

Of course there could be a gross error in the powder measure.

 

There’s something else going on in the process if he’s consistently blowing out primers. What I would check is the primer pocket size after decapping and switch primer seating methods. 

 

 

Edited April 19, 2019 by HesedTech

[TDF]

I haven't used CFE but I load a lot of 147's with tightgroup 2.9 grains. Did you check your chrono to see how fast?

[JakeG]

Thanks for replying! I'm not worried about crono right now I just want ammo to run good! I'll try to get better picture tomorrow! Its not just one kind of brass either. I have to load that short for my stock 3 to pass the plunk  test. 

[muncie21]

7 hours ago, JakeG said:

Thanks for replying! I'm not worried about crono right now I just want ammo to run good! I'll try to get better picture tomorrow! Its not just one kind of brass either. I have to load that short for my stock 3 to pass the plunk  test. 

At this point I believe the chrono recommendation was to determine if the round is grossly overcharged, which could be causing the primer to blow out, rather than see if you're making PF.  Another very rough way to confirming charge is to look at how full the case is. 3.5gr of CFE should fill less than 50%  of the case.  If your cases are full to almost full, your powder dispensing or weight measurement is off.

 

I load 9mm to 1.08-1.09 OAL for my CZs, so I'm familiar with the need to load short.  I've also taken 124gr bullets to 1400 FPS to make PF in 9mm major and have not had a primer blow yet. If your powder drop is on target, there has to be a component issue.

[JakeG]

Powder in the case is less than half.measuring on the beam scale of the powder drop is within +-.01   taking 10% off of 3.6 should be loading 3.2  I'll start here hopefully get rounds to run then crono 

[JakeG]

Ok guys I changed powder and bought rolled sized cases and don’t have the problem anymore 

[chgofirefighter]

On 4/17/2019 at 2:32 PM, JakeG said:

Hey guys I'm loading 147 blue bullet with 3.6 grains of CFE pistol I'm blowing some primers is this too hot? What grain do y'all recommend for CFE pistol?

Thanks Jake

 

 

Invest in a good quality chrono to test of your ammo out.  Guessing will not help!  Best way is to always chrono your ammo and document, document, document...  I've had great success with the Caldwell G2 chrono, works indoors and out due to its attached lighting system.