P10F OR upgrades for competition

[B_RAD]

I won a P-10F at nats. Gonna upgrade to the OR. I shot one all tricked out earlier this year. I like these. 

 

 

[Superpipe9]

Has anyone here used the new Cajun gunworks recut striker and spring? If so what’s your take on it. 

[mrvip27]

23 hours ago, Superpipe9 said:

 New update. I installed a 13lb Glock recoil spring and can hands down say it’s the way to go for me anyway. I’m still trying to decide between the Cajun aluminum trigger which has the adjustable screws, Cajun g10 trigger which doesn’t have any adjustable screws and the HBI theta trigger. Also really curious if any of you guys have tried the new Cajun striker.  

 

Which guide rod you using again?

I use the HBI trigger...

 

Curious how the Cajun striker would affect this combo. Would you have to use the springs that are with the theta kit?

 

23 hours ago, B_RAD said:

I won a P-10F at nats. Gonna upgrade to the OR. I shot one all tricked out earlier this year. I like these. 

 

 

 

What is all tricked out on it?

 

Edited October 16, 2019 by mrvip27

[B_RAD]

21 minutes ago, mrvip27 said:

 

Which guide rod you using again?

I use the HBI trigger...

 

Curious how the Cajun striker would affect this combo. Would you have to use the springs that are with the theta kit?

 

 

What is all tricked out on it?

 

I'll have to find out exactly what the everything was. It was Matt Hopkins gun. 

[Superpipe9]

2 hours ago, mrvip27 said:

 

Which guide rod you using again?

I use the HBI trigger...

 

Curious how the Cajun striker would affect this combo. Would you have to use the springs that are with the theta kit?

 

 

What is all tricked out on it?

 

I have a metal guide rod from Cajun with a 13lb Glock recoil spring. The new Cajun competition cut striker comes with a lightened striker spring and is supposed to yield a 3.5lb trigger with the stock trigger. The HBI and Cajun triggers don’t lighten the trigger pull at all. It just shortens the pre travel. HBI sends out a 3 and 3.5lb striker spring and that is what lightens the trigger on their trigger kit. 

[mrvip27]

1 hour ago, Superpipe9 said:

I have a metal guide rod from Cajun with a 13lb Glock recoil spring. The new Cajun competition cut striker comes with a lightened striker spring and is supposed to yield a 3.5lb trigger with the stock trigger. The HBI and Cajun triggers don’t lighten the trigger pull at all. It just shortens the pre travel. HBI sends out a 3 and 3.5lb striker spring and that is what lightens the trigger on their trigger kit. 

 

I wasn't sure that the glock spring could fit on their guide rod. Thanks.

 

Ya i used the reduced striker spring. I am assuming the cajun reduced striker spring is similar to the HBI?

So otherwise, I could just switch out the striker?

[Jabberwalkie09]

7 hours ago, mrvip27 said:

 

I wasn't sure that the glock spring could fit on their guide rod. Thanks.

 

Ya i used the reduced striker spring. I am assuming the cajun reduced striker spring is similar to the HBI?

So otherwise, I could just switch out the striker?

I’m pretty certain that the recoil spring is a standard ISMI spring like you would find in a gen 3 Glock, just insert your desired poundage.

Edited October 16, 2019 by Jabberwalkie09

[mrvip27]

On 10/16/2019 at 5:26 AM, Jabberwalkie09 said:

I’m pretty certain that the recoil spring is a standard ISMI spring like you would find in a gen 3 Glock, just insert your desired poundage.

 

Thank you.

 

Anyone tried other items to put weight into the grip?

[mrvip27]

PS which tungsten glock guide rod works (length?17? 34?)? generation/brand?

Edited October 21, 2019 by mrvip27

[earlan357]

On 10/20/2019 at 9:22 PM, mrvip27 said:

PS which tungsten glock guide rod works (length?17? 34?)? generation/brand?

I'm currently using an uncaptured Jager Gen3 G17 .275" Tungsten with Wolff G17 round wire springs.  The rod and spring weighs 2.1oz compared to the OEM which is 1.0 oz.  Had to trim a little off the front of the rod to be flush with the muzzle.  I had to clip 3 coils off a 15# recoil spring.  Otherwise it would coil bind and reduce my slide travel about 2mm. 

I just ordered a gen5 pure tungsten G17 rod from Glockstore to experiment with.  It's wider in diameter and 3.7oz with their special gen4/5 flat wire spring.  Gonna have to narrow the base on a lathe to make it fit my P10F.  Also, the base itself is thicker which will rob me of more slide travel, so I've got an assortment of shorter G19 springs from Wolff on the way as well.

[bmudskipper]

I am interested in what you find out on that 3.7 oz tungsten guide rod in the p10f. I can easily turn it down where it is needed.

[earlan357]

On 11/11/2019 at 9:47 PM, bmudskipper said:

I am interested in what you find out on that 3.7 oz tungsten guide rod in the p10f. I can easily turn it down where it is needed.

The Glockstore Gen5 rod diameter wasn't very uniform.  The tip was .311" bulging out to .315" before tapering back to .312" near the base.  The base itself was .503" too large to seat in the frame.  The tip looked like it had been cut with a bandsaw and smoothed on a buffing wheel.  Fortunately it was long enough that I could clean it up on the lathe.  I went with the Gen G17 Gen5 guide rod (Gen5 G17 is longer than gen4 G17 due to the revised barrel/locking block) since it's only a few mm longer than the P-10F.  It started at 2.8oz. 3.7oz is the weight of the extended g34 version, which is way too long.

The recoil spring hole in the P-10F slide is .300"  Shortening the rod to sit flush with the slide and turning the rod down to .285" would only result in a 2.3oz guide rod.  My Jentra .275" rod is 2.0oz.

Instead I drilled out the hole in the slide with a 5/16 drill bit.  Pretty much sacrificed the bit since it had to cut through the hard nitride finish.  Then reamed the hole out to 8.5mm. (.335")

I turned the disk at the base of the rod from .503" to .420".  The disk was also .200" thick.  My other rods are .070" - .100" thick.  I had to face it down to .100"  Otherwise, the coils would bind due to the lost travel.  Wolff Glock19 springs were really tight but Sprinco G19 springs slide right on.  The Springco 13# G19 spring is just about perfect with my 132PF 147gr loads but the slide could benefit from being a few oz lighter.

Final rod weight is 2.7oz.  

CGW Stainless P-10F - 0.7 oz
Jentra Heavy .275 Glock Gen3 G24 Extended (trimmed to fit flush with slide) -2.0 oz

Glockstore Gen5 17 Pure-Tungsten (after trimming length and modifying base) - 2.7 oz

 

After calculating the density of the GlockStore rod, I've concluded its a 90% tungsten alloy.  This makes sense since alloys over 92.5% are brittle enough to break when dropped on concrete. (We use tungsten weights as ballast in our race shop)  I just ordered a 90% tungsten, 6% nickel, 4% copper alloy rod.  I'm going to make a custom guide rod with a .340" diameter.  I'll have to ream out the slide hole some more, but the weight should be around 3.1oz and I can use 1911 Commander recoil springs.

I'm also debating stroking the slide ala 1911/2011 to get another 0.200" of slide travel.  Less for changing the recoil impulse and more to make feeding from 23-round mags reliable.  Currently, people are having nose-dive jams with 23 rounds in the mag.  The extra travel should give the mag more time to pop the next round up to the feed lips.  Unlike in a hammer fired CZ, there's no hammer drag to slow the slide's motion at the beginning of the return stroke.

Once I get everything dialed in, I'm going to chamfer the slide hole to make it look nicer, then send off the slide for some additional lightening and black nitride re-finish.

[mrvip27]

Wow thanks for all the hard work. 

 

I hope someone comes out with one to buy.

[earlan357]

On 10/15/2019 at 9:58 AM, Superpipe9 said:

Has anyone here used the new Cajun gunworks recut striker and spring? If so what’s your take on it. 

https://czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=106434.0

[bmudskipper]

I have the new cut cgw striker in and can confirm the weight on the pull is lower and much smoother through the trigger pull itself. I used the striker spring that came with it also. I did have some light strikes on CCI sp primers but since switching to federal it has been lighting them off 100%. I would highly recommend the cgw new profile striker and spring kit to any competitors. 

 

THANK YOU SO MUCH EARLAN357 For all the development you did on the guide rod. Curious where did you buy your tungsten rod you plan to turn down from? I have been looking to make my own as well.

[earlan357]

1 hour ago, bmudskipper said:

I have the new cut cgw striker in and can confirm the weight on the pull is lower and much smoother through the trigger pull itself. I used the striker spring that came with it also. I did have some light strikes on CCI sp primers but since switching to federal it has been lighting them off 100%. I would highly recommend the cgw new profile striker and spring kit to any competitors. 

 

THANK YOU SO MUCH EARLAN357 For all the development you did on the guide rod. Curious where did you buy your tungsten rod you plan to turn down from? I have been looking to make my own as well.

Our shop orders direct from Midwest Tungsten.  I found their .4375" rod on amazon: https://amzn.to/32Z60h4  It machines like cast iron.  Here are some guidelines: https://www.eaglealloys.com/machining-tungsten-alloys/

[bmudskipper]

Thank you for the information. I just ordered a rod to turn down. For anyone looking to buy the Glock store guide rod, they are currently out of stock of the uncaptured gen 5 g17/34 tungsten rods. But they said they are back in production very soon.

 

Hey earlan357 I did add weight to the frame under the back strap with a mixture of tungsten powder from golfworks and epoxy and smeared it in there. In case you want to add more weight down low.

[earlan357]

On 11/18/2019 at 2:47 PM, bmudskipper said:

Thank you for the information. I just ordered a rod to turn down. For anyone looking to buy the Glock store guide rod, they are currently out of stock of the uncaptured gen 5 g17/34 tungsten rods. But they said they are back in production very soon.

 

Hey earlan357 I did add weight to the frame under the back strap with a mixture of tungsten powder from golfworks and epoxy and smeared it in there. In case you want to add more weight down low.

 

I just finished turning my rod.  I'm not a pro machinist and it was difficult to get a decent finish.  First attempt came out pretty rough with a lot of inclusions.  488 RPM, .005" cutting depth, with a .008" feed rate produced mostly dust.  I bumped the RPMs to 612, and increased the depth on my finish pass to .020" with the same .008" feed rate.  Cutting dry with just air blowing on the piece produced better chips.  Rod diameter is .340".  I reamed the hole in my slide out to 23/64" .359".   1911 commander recoil springs are snug, but when they're compressed the coils increase in diameter so no drag once in the slide.  Weight is 3.2oz.    Definitely needs to be polished.  I managed to slick it up on the lathe before I faced the ends with 100 and 220 grit emery cloth.  Not mirror polished, but the slide cycles smooth with the round wire springs.  Need some diamond lapping compound to make it pretty.

 

.340" with 1911 Commander spring vs .235" diameter.

Edited November 20, 2019 by earlan357

[bmudskipper]

Looks good. I have a couple questions if you wouldn't mind. What #spring did you settle for? Wolff has them for .45 acp 12# and up. I shoot USPSA Carry Optics and reload 145rn bullets at 135 pf. Also have you found a way to tune out the over travel on the p10f as it has a bit more than desired.

I would love to see a video of your new p10 setup.

[earlan357]

57 minutes ago, bmudskipper said:

Looks good. I have a couple questions if you wouldn't mind. What #spring did you settle for? Wolff has them for .45 acp 12# and up. I shoot USPSA Carry Optics and reload 145rn bullets at 135 pf. Also have you found a way to tune out the over travel on the p10f as it has a bit more than desired.

I would love to see a video of your new p10 setup.

Currently I have a conventional 14# commander spring in it.  Feels a hair too heavy.  I have Wolff 12 and 13 pound conventional springs on order.  I don’t like progressive springs in striker guns since there’s no hammer to delay the slide unlocking.

 

I recut my connector angle to decrease the break weight.  It also moves the break farther back in the trigger guard, effectively reducing over travel a little.  Only other way is to install a small setscrew behind the trigger, but because of the trigger safety, the tiny screw required would eventually dig into the plastic frame.

[bmudskipper]

On 7/7/2019 at 4:22 AM, Jabberwalkie09 said:

So, I had a pretty significant issue with some 147 American Eagle fmj stuff which is a flat nose round like the  syntech round is. When I ordered my original base pads and followers, i believe I got sent the 75 mag follower kit and not the p series mag kit. I swapped back to the stock guts in the interim and haven’t had an issue, but I should have the correct kit sometime next week.

 

I settled on the gun just not liking the flat nose rounds, and I’ve burned off all that I had left fortunately though somewhat frustrating at the time. So now I’m shooting 124 blazer through it at the moment. No issues so far.

If I'm understanding right, I did find your other tests on the trigger pull with the stock 45 connect and the modified 39 deg connect. So you essentially traded more travel for less force needed to set off the trigger? So the wall might have moved back a tiny amount but the break is much farther back? This of course does not change anything with reset, just lengthening the pull from wall to break. I might pick up another disconnect and ply with this idea.

 

Since there is so much overtravel would you suppose if I translate the same 45 further back a couple thou then the wall would move back as well as the break? Maintaining the same trigger break weight.  Then I could adjust cgw pre travel to just outside the reset.

 

This stuff is fun. I like to tinker and am machinist by day.

[bmudskipper]

To clarify, you started with the stock angle 45 deg (yellow line) and filed back the angled area by the red arrow to meet with the green arrow at 39deg from top behind in this image?

[Jabberwalkie09]

43 minutes ago, bmudskipper said:

If I'm understanding right, I did find your other tests on the trigger pull with the stock 45 connect and the modified 39 deg connect. So you essentially traded more travel for less force needed to set off the trigger? So the wall might have moved back a tiny amount but the break is much farther back? This of course does not change anything with reset, just lengthening the pull from wall to break. I might pick up another disconnect and ply with this idea.

 

Since there is so much overtravel would you suppose if I translate the same 45 further back a couple thou then the wall would move back as well as the break? Maintaining the same trigger break weight.  Then I could adjust cgw pre travel to just outside the reset.

 

This stuff is fun. I like to tinker and am machinist by day.

I’m not sure why you quoted my post... I have an HBI trigger kit in my Carry Optics gun and am back to running the stock followers in my mags since I couldn’t get the grams followers to work in my gun with CZ Custom base pads. I did modify the stock follower in the way that’s shown on Henning’s website.

 

I personally haven’t modified any of the internal parts of the gun other then replacing the parts that some with the HBI kit.

[earlan357]

1 hour ago, bmudskipper said:

If I'm understanding right, I did find your other tests on the trigger pull with the stock 45 connect and the modified 39 deg connect. So you essentially traded more travel for less force needed to set off the trigger? So the wall might have moved back a tiny amount but the break is much farther back? This of course does not change anything with reset, just lengthening the pull from wall to break. I might pick up another disconnect and ply with this idea.

 

Since there is so much overtravel would you suppose if I translate the same 45 further back a couple thou then the wall would move back as well as the break? Maintaining the same trigger break weight.  Then I could adjust cgw pre travel to just outside the reset.

 

This stuff is fun. I like to tinker and am machinist by day.

That's what I did with my 3rd connector.  I kept the 45 degree angle but gradually curved the bottom to about 40 degrees.  I used a safe-sided 1911 slide rail file, then cleaned it up with wet sand paper up to 2000 grit before polishing with a felt disc.  The result was a clearly defined wall, but instead of stacking linearly, the curved ramp reduced the effort at the same rate the striker spring was compressing.  So the weight in effect went down after the wall.  The feeling is that the trigger is almost pulling away from your finger before the break.  I didn't want to move the break too far rearward though.  I wasn't sure if the triangular tab on the trigger bar would move past the striker block lever and allow it to re-engage.

Any tips on machining tungsten?  It took a lot of sanding to smooth out.  Shallow finishing passes were actually worse than the deeper roughing cuts.  I've seen recommendations for SFM over 200, but that comes out to over 2,200 RPM and my lathe can't spin that fast.  

[bmudskipper]

So last night after work I turned out a  2.8 oz guide rod from the tungsten. Turns pretty much like tough steel. I was at 650 rippums / feed per rev at I think .008" with a very positive rake carbide insert that has a huge .012" radius. The issue with this material is it creates a ton of heat at the tool edge so get a big rad and positive rake tool. Also get as much air pressure to the tool as you can. DOC was .02" (x3) radially and a .025" finish pass at the same feed/speed. I segmented the cuts in 1" sections working my way to the final .320" diameter to keep the workpiece rigid. Then sanded heavenly on the lathe to blend the intersections of the cuts with 1000grit paper. Followed by a fiber brush on a bench lathe until smooth and purrty. The slide proved to be a PITA though. Destroyed a .360" carbide bit but did the job. Work holding was not easy either for rigidity. Here are some illustrations to show the stuff. 

 

Edit: I shot this gun in a local indoor match last night and the guide rod changed the recoil impulse so much. This gun returned to POA so fast and it sped up follow up shots.

 

Edited November 22, 2019 by bmudskipper
forgot info