P10F OR upgrades for competition

[earlan357]

8 hours ago, bmudskipper said:

So last night after work I turned out a  2.8 oz guide rod from the tungsten. Turns pretty much like tough steel. I was at 650 rippums / feed per rev at I think .008" with a very positive rake carbide insert that has a huge .012" radius. The issue with this material is it creates a ton of heat at the tool edge so get a big rad and positive rake tool. Also get as much air pressure to the tool as you can. DOC was .02" (x3) radially and a .025" finish pass at the same feed/speed. I segmented the cuts in 1" sections working my way to the final .320" diameter to keep the workpiece rigid. Then sanded heavenly on the lathe to blend the intersections of the cuts with 1000grit paper. Followed by a fiber brush on a bench lathe until smooth and purrty. The slide proved to be a PITA though. Destroyed a .360" carbide bit but did the job. Work holding was not easy either for rigidity. Here are some illustrations to show the stuff. 

 

Edit: I shot this gun in a local indoor match last night and the guide rod changed the recoil impulse so much. This gun returned to POA so fast and it sped up follow up shots.

 

Nice!  Adding all that weight reminds me of when I started switched from factory ammo to 132PF loads.  I turned about 5" between the chuck and a live center in long passes, then faced the ends.  Probably why I got such a crap finish.  The next thing I want to do is slightly longstroke the slide by cutting .100" off the back of the slide tunnel.  I'll need to extend the spring seat deeper as well, but I can't find an 11.5mm or 29/64" tool (endmill, counterbore, reamer?) that's long enough to reach it.  Any suggestions?

Edited November 22, 2019 by earlan357

[bmudskipper]

Yes I remember the switch from factory ammo to my 135 pf 145gr loads and it was a similar step in the right direction to make an oversized tungsten guide rod. I'm going to add a couple more ounces of tungsten powder in the back strap to further deaden the recoil.

I measured the depth of the counterbore on that spring tunnel to be .215" so I think the tunnel would be fine if you take off .100" and just check the slide distance to be the same with and without the recoil spring to see if you are coil binding. Trim off coils until good. There is plenty of frame rail left for the extra rearward travel. That tunnel is only to guide the spring / keep it centered. So .100" off won't change a thing, except more momentum to pick up the top round from the mag.

 

I am experimenting with different cut down followers to see if I can get reliable feed of 23+1. Stroking the slide could help increase momentum picking up that top(tight) round. I only trust 22+1 starts right now. just ordered 2 Taran tactical sti/sv extra thin followers to modify for the p10 tubes. With an 11 cool grams spring.

 

[earlan357]

2 hours ago, bmudskipper said:

Yes I remember the switch from factory ammo to my 135 pf 145gr loads and it was a similar step in the right direction to make an oversized tungsten guide rod. I'm going to add a couple more ounces of tungsten powder in the back strap to further deaden the recoil.

I measured the depth of the counterbore on that spring tunnel to be .215" so I think the tunnel would be fine if you take off .100" and just check the slide distance to be the same with and without the recoil spring to see if you are coil binding. Trim off coils until good. There is plenty of frame rail left for the extra rearward travel. That tunnel is only to guide the spring / keep it centered. So .100" off won't change a thing, except more momentum to pick up the top round from the mag.

 

I am experimenting with different cut down followers to see if I can get reliable feed of 23+1. Stroking the slide could help increase momentum picking up that top(tight) round. I only trust 22+1 starts right now. just ordered 2 Taran tactical sti/sv extra thin followers to modify for the p10 tubes. With an 11 cool grams spring.

 

I’m using 1911 commander springs.  There’s only .040” of extra space before the coils bind(.042” x 23.5 coils).  I want to open the space up to give me the option of cutting down fullsize 1911 springs.   23 rounds in the mag may not be feasible without using a 9 or 10 coil mag spring.  Unlike hammer fired guns, I’ve noticed that my striker guns have a ramp on the front of the slide center rib that pushes the top round into the mag as the slide starts retracting.  I think this is used to delay barrel unlocking since there’s no hammer pressure on the back of the slide. So with 23 rounds in the mag, it still needs an extra .15” of slack.  I think the ramp creates so much resistance with the mag so tightly packed, that the slide never makes it to the full rearward position and the next round nose dives.  I think CZC makes a 10 coil spring that works with their followers but I don’t know the with diameter.  I think I’ll just experiemnt by cutting down a spare factory spring until I can get 23 in and see if it’ll function.

[bmudskipper]

Another way you could gain spring room but not cut the slide is to relieve the face of the yellow arrow on a mill. This will allow a longer guide rod also. That would gain you the extra room for the spring you want to use at full compression with slide back. The frame is stopping on the plastic stop at the red arrow so the yellow area is safe to cut since it takes only spring force. From the front of the gun, but shouldn't take too much as the barrel lockup is putting force from the slide stop engaging the barrel at lockup.

 

Another route would be to drill out the slide more for a reverse tunnel plug similar to that on a 2011 medium slide build. Use the plug to move that counter bore forward but have a smaller hole for the guide rod to protrude through.

Edited November 23, 2019 by bmudskipper
forgot image

[earlan357]

9 minutes ago, bmudskipper said:

Another way you could gain spring room but not cut the slide is to relieve the face of the yellow arrow on a mill. This will allow a longer guide rod also. That would gain you the extra room for the spring you want to use at full compression with slide back. The frame is stopping on the plastic stop at the red arrow so the yellow area is safe to cut since it takes only spring force. From the front of the gun, but shouldn't take too much as the barrel lockup is putting force from the slide stop engaging the barrel at lockup.

 

Another route would be to drill out the slide more for a reverse tunnel plug similar to that on a 2011 medium slide build. Use the plug to move that counter bore forward but have a smaller hole for the guide rod to protrude through.

 

I thought about that, but then the spring seat will cut into the hole for the roll pin.  I’m liking there reverse plug idea though.

[bmudskipper]

I had good luck with the +1 extra thin followers from Taran Tactical and a Grams 11 coil spring. Had to shorten the back of the follower to be 29.5mm to fit the p10 tubes. Then had to shorten the underside of the follower a bit. Then put a new side hole in the underside of the follower for the spring to attach to it.

 

Did also tune the mag body by squeezing the neck / base of the tube transition area together a bit to get a better single file stack at the top to keep the top couple rounds more pointed up. I will also be filing the ribs inside the bottom of the tube a little to allow more room for bullets to stack down there. I have an easy .200" now to compress with 23 in the mag.

 

First picture, I had to trim I little where the orange arrow is to center the follower on the spring.  And once I did that then I drilled a second hole by the red arrow to connect the follower and spring.

 

Second picture, I had to sand the bottom up a little but also by the back blue arrow I took material off until I was at 29.5 mm( orig 31.75mm). The red lines show the 29.5 mm dimension. 

 

Lastly, I bent the follow and the first couple coils to be pointing up in the front a bit more.

[bmudskipper]

Here is a couple videos of the mag 23+1

 

 

[Superpipe9]

I got the Cajun gunworks aluminum trigger with the Allen screw for Christmas and installed it today. Gotta say I’m not loving it. It definitely takes up some pretravel and Shortens the reset slightly but it feels grittier or rougher when pulling the trigger than my stock trigger and it’s not as long as my stock trigger so I now am getting trigger bite. Have any of you guys experienced this? My P10f was made first quarter of 2019 so I think it has the most up to date stock trigger. I’m kinda disappointed in the Cajun trigger. Especially for $70. Thanks

Edited December 29, 2019 by Superpipe9

[Superpipe9]

Anybody know anything about Apex Tactical coming out with a P10 trigger kit? Someone on Facebook posted about it and I can’t find it now. 

[mrvip27]

Anyone use impact ammo 147gr? Does it meet power factor in the 4.5" barrel?

 

Also is the Primary machine p10f barrel legal for carry optics?

The rules say within .1" of the length.

[j2_a2]

Would the Glock 19  guide rod help with certain ammo nose diving? Took mine out to the range yesterday to zero my SRO to prepare to use this yearner carry optics, and I was still getting some rounds nose diving with a G17 tungsten guide rod with 13lbs spring. I'm using the springer precision mag extensions with the stock spring and follower, and also trimmed the bottom legs of the followers as well. I planned to use federal syntech ammo since I don't currently reload, but I guess I'll have to go with some regular ball ammo till then. 

[muncie21]

Anyone running the factory 19-round mag with the +2 factory base pad?  I see that Greg Cote has these available for $35.

[NoKimberDave]

On 1/4/2020 at 5:31 AM, muncie21 said:

Anyone running the factory 19-round mag with the +2 factory base pad?  I see that Greg Cote has these available for $35.

 

Yes. With good success.

[j2_a2]

Shot my first match of the year in carry optics, the ammo feeding problem didn't happen as long as I used round nose ammo. Still trying to figure out a way to fed my syntax ammo reliably though. The gun ran well up until about my 4th stage and then I started to have ejecting problems and some stovepipes. I saw a post on the CZ forum of someone who had a similar problem. Went to check my gun and had the same exact problem, the ejector broke. My mags were loaded to 22 and there was still some room for the spring to compress, but I guess it wasn't enough. 

[MarilynMonbro]

On 1/4/2020 at 4:31 AM, muncie21 said:

Anyone running the factory 19-round mag with the +2 factory base pad?  I see that Greg Cote has these available for $35.

 

I read these are too long to fit in the USPSA mag gauge 

[mrvip27]

I’ve been using henning basepads with success. I didn’t have to trim the follower to get 22 in. Mind you I use a loader, so maybe it would be a bit hard without using it (hence why cutting down the follower?)

[rocket99]

Has anyone tried the DPM recoil management system in a P-10F yet


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[JesseM]

On 1/26/2020 at 6:21 AM, MarilynMonbro said:

 

I read these are too long to fit in the USPSA mag gauge 

I'd love to know because these would make my life easier. Can anyone confirm?

 

 

[CHA-LEE]

On 1/11/2020 at 10:12 AM, j2_a2 said:

Shot my first match of the year in carry optics, the ammo feeding problem didn't happen as long as I used round nose ammo. Still trying to figure out a way to fed my syntax ammo reliably though. The gun ran well up until about my 4th stage and then I started to have ejecting problems and some stovepipes. I saw a post on the CZ forum of someone who had a similar problem. Went to check my gun and had the same exact problem, the ejector broke. My mags were loaded to 22 and there was still some room for the spring to compress, but I guess it wasn't enough. 

The P10 pistols use the base pad to prevent mag over insertion which in turn prevents the ejector from getting snapped off. Most after market base pads, especially 140mm base pads, don’t prevent over insertion. So if the slide is locked back and you smash a 140mm mag in the gun during a reload it’s going to over insert and snap the ejector off. 
 

The easy solution for this is to disable the slide lock function by grinding that nub off the follower. With 22-23 +1 in the gun you shouldn’t be running it to empty anyway If you are using the proper stage plans. If you continually shoot the gun to slide lock during stage runs then your stage plans are not good. 
 

This exact issue is also why most 2011’s in Limited and Open divisions have the slide lock function disabled.

[SGT_Schultz]

ISMI Glock 17 FLAT wire springs work perfectly in P-10Fs.  No issues with spring going solid and preventing full rearward slide travel.

 

I use a 13 lb in mine and the dot tracks really well with 100% function with 130 PF 115 and 147 gr ammo.

[mrvip27]

5 hours ago, SGT_Schultz said:

ISMI Glock 17 FLAT wire springs work perfectly in P-10Fs.  No issues with spring going solid and preventing full rearward slide travel.

 

I use a 13 lb in mine and the dot tracks really well with 100% function with 130 PF 115 and 147 gr ammo.

 

With which guide rod? cajun?

[SGT_Schultz]

Just now, mrvip27 said:

 

With which guide rod? cajun?

 

The OEM guide rod.  I pulled back the OEM spring back a little and ground off the flare at the front with a dremel just enough to remove the spring.  Then chucked it in a lathe at work and turned the front even with the rest of the rod.  Some insta-blue and done.

[mrvip27]

1 minute ago, SGT_Schultz said:

 

The OEM guide rod.  I pulled back the OEM spring back a little and ground off the flare at the front with a dremel just enough to remove the spring.  Then chucked it in a lathe at work and turned the front even with the rest of the rod.  Some insta-blue and done.

 

Would the spring work on a cajun p10f rod?

[SGT_Schultz]

33 minutes ago, mrvip27 said:

 

Would the spring work on a cajun p10f rod?

 

I don't see why not

[j2_a2]

On 2/15/2020 at 8:36 PM, CHA-LEE said:

The P10 pistols use the base pad to prevent mag over insertion which in turn prevents the ejector from getting snapped off. Most after market base pads, especially 140mm base pads, don’t prevent over insertion. So if the slide is locked back and you smash a 140mm mag in the gun during a reload it’s going to over insert and snap the ejector off. 
 

The easy solution for this is to disable the slide lock function by grinding that nub off the follower. With 22-23 +1 in the gun you shouldn’t be running it to empty anyway If you are using the proper stage plans. If you continually shoot the gun to slide lock during stage runs then your stage plans are not good. 
 

This exact issue is also why most 2011’s in Limited and Open divisions have the slide lock function disabled.

 

I wasn't shooting to slide lock at all. When I got the replacement part from CZ I did notice the ejector is bent a little upwards. The gun ran fine my last match and I didn't notice any signs of cracking on the ejector.  I will try grinding down the follower as well.