Federal Syntech 124 grain too hot?

[malobukov]

I recently bought another case of 9 mm Federal Syntech 124 grain TSJ (AE9SJ2) and noticed that it is surprisingly hot. The box says muzzle velocity 1,050 fps but it sounded supersonic. I ran it through the chrono and sure enough, 1,216 fps average over 10 shots. Previous lot shot from the same Stock II was 1,092 fps.

 

I thought maybe they put 115 grain bullets, pulled several and weighted, no, they are indeed 124. But there is clearly more powder now, 5.2 grains compared to 4.6 in the old lot. This is approximate, as I might have spilled some powder when pulling the bullets, or got coating flakes mixed in, but is in line with what the chrono is saying.

 

Isn't 150 power factor in +P territory? Federal tech support is closed until next year, I'll ask them when they reopen, but still curious if this is common.

[radny97]

Well it would be a nice surprise for Federal to load something on the hot side for once. Most of their handgun stuff has been very anemic in my experience. 

Edited December 28, 2018 by radny97

[malobukov]

I don't mind anemic as long as it reliably makes minor power factor. But the difference between lots was surprising, I expected better consistency.

[rowdyb]

From a friend who worked at Winchester he said they really only cared about pressure being the same lot to lot. FPS just wasn't really that big of deal to them.

[malobukov]

1 minute ago, rowdyb said:

they really only cared about pressure being the same lot to lot

I have no way to measure pressure, but suspect that the difference will be comparable (unless they changed propellant).

[rowdyb]

I was just saying that what we care about isn't what they care about. So I'm not surprised you saw a big fps difference.

[emjei]

With all the USPSA Promo they have out there someone should inform them .....maybe you get 10k free

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[mike4045]

Is that in a pistol or a pcc?

 

[Hi-Power Jack]

21 minutes ago, mike4045 said:

Is that in a pistol or a pcc?

 

In a Stock II pistol.      

[Honeybooboo]

What’s the difference with this stuff?

 

https://www.sgammo.com/product/federal-ammo-sale/500-round-case-9mm-luger-124-grain-total-synthetic-jacket-federal-syntech-

[nick779]

37 minutes ago, Honeybooboo said:

What’s the difference with this stuff?

 

https://www.sgammo.com/product/federal-ammo-sale/500-round-case-9mm-luger-124-grain-total-synthetic-jacket-federal-syntech-

 

Its flat point (AE9SJ4). I believe AE9SJ2 is round nose. Just a different bullet.

Edited March 26, 2019 by nick779

[Hi-Power Jack]

On 12/28/2018 at 4:32 PM, malobukov said:

 suspect that the difference will be comparable 

 

Any update on this ?   Run any more chrono readings ?   Contact with Federal ?

[malobukov]

Called Federal and was told that they don't measure muzzle velocity, just pressure, confirming what rowdyb said. If there are no pressure signs, they see no problem, even if there is 100 fps difference in muzzle velocity and power factor is 150. There are no recalls and nobody else complained. If I want, I can send them a box so they test fire and measure pressure.

 

Was also told that they can change propellant twice in one week, so the difference in powder weight might be because of that. Not all lots of AE9SJ2 use the same load data, they just manage pressure. No wonder there's such variance in muzzle velocity from lot to lot.

 

I see no pressure signs. I planned to use this ammo for matches, but I guess I'll burn it in practice instead, and consider it investment in my education. Good thing there are other manufacturers.

[ddc]

6 minutes ago, malobukov said:

Called Federal and was told that they don't measure muzzle velocity, just pressure, confirming what rowdyb said. If there are no pressure signs, they see no problem, even if there is 100 fps difference in muzzle velocity and power factor is 150. There are no recalls and nobody else complained. If I want, I can send them a box so they test fire and measure pressure.

 

Was also told that they can change propellant twice in one week, so the difference in powder weight might be because of that. Not all lots of AE9SJ2 use the same load data, they just manage pressure. No wonder there's such variance in muzzle velocity from lot to lot.

 

I see no pressure signs. I planned to use this ammo for matches, but I guess I'll burn it in practice instead, and consider it investment in my education. Good thing there are other manufacturers.

 

wow... I had no idea that was the way it works. I wonder if all the manufacturers have such variability. Perhaps only in their lower tier products?

 

I would hope their personal defense hollow point ammo was more consistent.

[malobukov]

4 hours ago, Hi-Power Jack said:

 

Any update on this ?   Run any more chrono readings ?   Contact with Federal ?

Yep, same results.

 

[nick779]

10 hours ago, malobukov said:

Yep, same results.

 

 

Wow, thats a hell of a difference...

 

Glad I never ordered any of it.

[rowdyb]

A good fried worked in purchasing for Remington for years. That is where I learned that pressure is what counts to the manufacturer. NOT fps or any measurement we as a consumer use. And yes, powders used in the "same load" , which to us means the same box on the shelf, can indeed be different each time they order powder.

 

So like I said originally, what we care about in a load in not necessarily what the manufacturer cares about.

 

Making and or advertising ammo that runs too close to the line for PF can be a dangerous game, just ask anyone who's shot Freedom and failed chrono.

 

 

[Acer2428]

Still seems like they could care when it's marketed directly to a crowd using it for action pistol... Interesting to know, thanks.

[Steve RA]

The crowd using it for "Action Pistol" is such a minute % of the total customer base that it probably doesn't make the top 100 list of priorities.

[ncrivello]

28 minutes ago, Steve RA said:

The crowd using it for "Action Pistol" is such a minute % of the total customer base that it probably doesn't make the top 100 list of priorities.

Sure, but when it has the official USPSA logo plastered all over it...

[Steve RA]

Some customers probably don't care.

[malobukov]

1 hour ago, ncrivello said:

Sure, but when it has the official USPSA logo plastered all over it...

Well, they promise that their ammo makes minor power factor, and it does.

[Hi-Power Jack]

Minor Power Factor  ++.     

[ajblack]

Isn't Federal Syntec the 'official' match ammo and therefore excempt from chrono at USPSA majors?  At least this is what I thought the case was at Nationals. That might also explain why they're not too concerned with FPS consistency. I saw an article with the 45 acp syntec offerings where certain loadings weren't making major PF out of a full size 1911 either

[rowdyb]

Official deals are about money first and foremost. Then it gets sold to us as a good deal by getting 5-10% off and not having to go through chrono testing at one match a year.

 

That said, I've shot 600 rounds of the 9mm and liked it. Out of a pcc and two different pistols. It worked great.

 

Butttt, if you want the best ammo for your gun I feel you have to make it yourself.