Boomstick303 Posted February 14, 2022 Share Posted February 14, 2022 1 hour ago, mpmo said: I spent maybe 5 mins searching for the answer before I posted. I will attest it is not easy to find stuff. Use the use all search terms option and that helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpmo Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 On 2/14/2022 at 2:56 PM, Don_B said: Pretty sure it happens when loading the mag. I pay attention to each round as I load it to make sure they don't get behind the lower round after I had the same thing happen. So, I took it back out to the range and carefully loaded the 9 round mags, making sure after each round that the rim of the top round was not behind the round below it. I still experienced this issue with both 9 round mags. It happened a couple times after I reloaded them in the same fashion. Am I missing something in the loading process? What else could the issue be? These are new direct from RIA. They are also pretty stiff getting in and out of the magwell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gerritm Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 When it happens carefully take out the mag and see if the rounds are rim locked. You should be able to tell. Also when you seat the mag push it in and pull to check if it is seated. Don't slap the bottom that can cause the rounds to jump & lock especially if the mag spring are really tight. If you find them rim locked could be your loading technique. I had the same experience with several different mags being very tight and because a friend is a dealer I found several that go in easy & drop free thru testing. The mag springs are also way over tensioned. I found that putting some Taylor Freelance +3 extensions relieve some of the spring tension are easier to load & the bolt drops faster on the first round. My gut feeling is depending on where & when the mags were made they are slightly different in dimensions & spring tension. We run 2 different VR80's and my magwell was super tight from the factory and hers is much looser. I had to file the paint off the back side edges to help & also I filed the inner edges where the mag drags on the magwell. gerritm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boomstick303 Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 (edited) 31 minutes ago, mpmo said: Am I missing something in the loading process? What else could the issue be? Quick question. Have you tuned your mags? Meaning have you removed the lock back tab on the followers. I wonder if that tab is hanging up the follower when a new round is loaded allowing an upper round to "jump" the lip of the lower round creating this condition. That Lock back tab does not allow the follower to freely move up and down the magazine. Once I removed those the follower moved way more freely. Just a theory, but it might be the cause possibly. Edited February 17, 2022 by Boomstick303 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpmo Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 Is there a guide to mag tuning somewhere? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gerritm Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 (edited) If you look back in this discussion there are several posts on tuning. Basically remove the bolt hold open, file all sharp edges especially the squareish area looking from the back to front.. I found several burrs there. Take the follower out and clean up all the edges. I spray some dry lube in the mag & follower. I polish the edges, take the paint off, and anywhere it hits going into the magwell. Stretch the springs & load a mag up with dummies or rounds and get the springs to adjust. There are some videos out there on different ways to make it run and loading techniques. I have Taccom 3-stage buffer & comp, and T&N triggers in both of ours. Hers has the gas ports opened. Or send your VR80 to Hayes Custom guns and have them work there magic on it and the mags. All a learning experience. Remember these are not $2K-$3K completely tuned guns like Dissident's. Here is hers. gerritm Edited February 17, 2022 by gerritm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boomstick303 Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 (edited) 12 minutes ago, gerritm said: and the mags. I do not think Hayes will address issues with Mags/ tune mags. Plus currently their website indicates they do not have the bandwidth to take on anymore VR80 work for now. I might have a unicorn. Edited February 17, 2022 by Boomstick303 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gerritm Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 1 hour ago, Boomstick303 said: I do not think Hayes will address issues with Mags/ tune mags. Plus currently their website indicates they do not have the bandwidth to take on anymore VR80 work for now. I might have a unicorn. I see that on their website. Last time I looked they were still taking orders. My guess is if you sent your VR80 to them for the whole package and bought a couple of mags they would be more than happy to make sure they run. I have seen a couple of their completed VR80's and they are really nice and work. We are shooting the Dissident Falling steel match Sunday if the weather holds. Hard part is I bought hers already done. Not sure by who, but they did a good job. Gun has basically run 98% with all ammo and shot slugs out to 100 yarsds to POA. I have had to learn what to do. I have bought new mags & tuned all my mags since the last match & the hoser match. Will see how it runs. Have learned a lot since getting it. So far with the right mags & ammo the gun runs. Love how soft it shoots compared to my MKA. gerritm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boomstick303 Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 42 minutes ago, gerritm said: I have bought new mags & tuned all my mags since the last match Due to your help I was able to Tune all of the mags and they seem like they will all operate freely. I do not seen the need for the sanding you describe. I agree the Taylor Freelance extensions help with the spring tension. I sent a VR80 into Hayes shortly after they started their VR80 service. It took 6 months to get back. I have very few rounds through it but zero malfunctions so far with Untuned mags. The thing seems like it will run like a top, but only time will tell. I am curious if Hayes has stopped accepting VR80s because they already have a backlog of VR80s to work on, or if their pistol orders are so heavy they do not have time for the VR80s? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKJD Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 I strip all the paint off from the outside of the mag all the way around down to the over insertion tabs then polish. Go in and out much easier. That paint is on there thick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boomstick303 Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 15 minutes ago, AKJD said: I strip all the paint off from the outside of the mag all the way around down to the over insertion tabs then polish. Go in and out much easier. That paint is on there thick. I will have to play with my mags a bit. Are we talking about insertion of the mag into the rifle, or the rounds out of the mag into the rifle, or both? My seem to be very free. My mags are newer so maybe they corrected the paint issue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slappyjack Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 (edited) Speaking of mags, there is a "new" 20rd drum mag in the US market, made by Defensesports, imported by SDS. Got mine from center fire systems and is supposed to work in all MKA 1919 style mag guns. It worked flawlessly in a couple of other Turk AR12 style guns I own out of the box. I had already put 125 rounds through before I tried it with the VR80. It hung up just trying to get it inserted and had to give it the "AR palm" mag smack several times. That was a mistake, it had also bound up going in a FEAR 116 and also cycled poorly. I could only shoot what was chambered, in the VR80 it would stovepipe, double feed, fail to eject and fail to go into battery, whatever feeding problem you can Imagine it did! I had to give it several wacks with rubber mallet to get it out of the gun. I put the extended mag well back on and that is the last time a drum touches the 80. Edited February 19, 2022 by slappyjack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meeesterpaul Posted February 19, 2022 Share Posted February 19, 2022 That's a bummer. I'll bet their customer service well be eager to help get that straightened out. I'm sure that they didn't put it out on the market without having seen it work. Give them a chance to get it working for you because drums are great. If you get it straightened out let us know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slappyjack Posted February 19, 2022 Share Posted February 19, 2022 14 hours ago, meeesterpaul said: That's a bummer. I'll bet their customer service well be eager to help get that straightened out. I'm sure that they didn't put it out on the market without having seen it work. Give them a chance to get it working for you because drums are great. If you get it straightened out let us know. I have a Pro Mag drum that works most of the time in the VR, but have to remove the extended mag well for it to lock in. I will just reserve the drums for other fun guns at the range Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gerritm Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 On 2/17/2022 at 2:11 PM, gerritm said: I see that on their website. Last time I looked they were still taking orders. My guess is if you sent your VR80 to them for the whole package and bought a couple of mags they would be more than happy to make sure they run. I have seen a couple of their completed VR80's and they are really nice and work. We are shooting the Dissident Falling steel match Sunday if the weather holds. Hard part is I bought hers already done. Not sure by who, but they did a good job. Gun has basically run 98% with all ammo and shot slugs out to 100 yarsds to POA. I have had to learn what to do. I have bought new mags & tuned all my mags since the last match & the hoser match. Will see how it runs. Have learned a lot since getting it. So far with the right mags & ammo the gun runs. Love how soft it shoots compared to my MKA. gerritm Shot the monthly Dissident Falling Steel match @ Trinity Gun Range Sunday. About 150 rounds. By the way excellent match to shoot, falling steel is instant gratification. If you are anywhere near Houston, Conroe/Cleveland Texas area it is worth it. Can shoot pistol, PCC, 22lr, or shotgun. Shot all the new tuned mags and they ran 100%. Used 3 different loads, AA1200fps 1 1/8oz, Federal Top Gun 1145fps 1 1/8oz, & Winchester 1280fps 1oz. All were *8 shot. All ran great. Found several of the Winchester 1280's that had big grooves in the front crimp right out of the box. One of our buddies just got a new VR80 and ran it for the first time. Drilled his gas ports and set it up with most standard upgrades. Tuned his mags per all suggestions. Was running a Taccom +5 extension on one of his 19 rounders. Got a full 24 rounds in it and other than maybe 1 issue it also ran great same as his VR80. I have ordered 1 for us. I am getting old & slow and lots of good shooters, but really a fun match to shoot. gerritm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gerritm Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 Got the Taccom plus 5 & installed it on a RIA 19 rounder that fit my VR & dropped easily. Initially could only get 20 rounds in it, but chamfered the follower after removing the BHO tab and did a little filing on the extension and now get all 24 rounds in. Checked how it fed with some dummy loads and it fed good with what seems like plenty of spring pressure. Unfortunately our 3-gun match Saturday was rained out & too cold(at least for us) so will run it in a couple of weeks at the next one. Getting closer to having everything complete. gerritm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gerritm Posted March 14, 2022 Share Posted March 14, 2022 Shot a 3-gun match Saturday. VR80 ran good, but new RIA 19 & Tacccom +5 did not want to feed consistently. Would feed a few then then not push up the next round. Trying to figure that out. All other mags ran fine. Going to try the +5 on another mag I know works, Shot the Dissident falling steel Sunday. Found the limit on how long you can go without tearing it down and cleaning. Roughly 1.5K rounds of mixed ammo. Really cold for SE Texas, low 30's. Gun would not run, had light strikes & FTE if it did run. Tried different types/fps of rounds and brand, did not matter. Tore it down completely. Everything that could be loose, was. Very dirty, even the gas ports were partially plugged. Cleaned/oiled it as best I could in the field & re-assembled. Ran fine for rest of the day. Took it home and tore it completely down for deep clean. Did same with my granddaughters with about the same number of rounds. Hers was not nearly as dirty, but only ran Win AA 1145fps rounds thru it. Ammo quality does seem to matter. gerritm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boomstick303 Posted March 14, 2022 Share Posted March 14, 2022 2 hours ago, gerritm said: Took it home and tore it completely down for deep clean Is there a good resource for this? Videos, manuals, etc. What to specifically look for/clean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gerritm Posted March 14, 2022 Share Posted March 14, 2022 I did Google searches and there was a couple of videos from different sources including RIA on disassembly. Nothing specific on cleaning. Actually very easy to take apart compared to my MKA1919. Did it in the field with my basic tool kit I carry. I have built many AR's and do all our own maintenance. So experienced in this. In the field I found the handguard retainer loose and the set screws that hold the barrel tight were very loose so I believe the barrel backed out slightly and cause the light strikes. Picked up the rounds after ejecting and barely a dimple on the primer. Pretty much took it all apart including barrel, gas system, and BCG and soaked all in Hoppes and cleaned. Took the chokes out. They were filthy and caked inside & out. Reinstalled the chokes after cleaning with Briley choke grease. Haven't put both back together as I am going to measure her gas ports to see how they compare to my stock ones. Waiting on a # drill bit set. I believe they should be #31,32, or 33. gerritm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slappyjack Posted March 16, 2022 Share Posted March 16, 2022 Red Leg Patriot has a tear down and clean and another lube and reassembly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CO3Gunner Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 Hey All, As promised, here is the new VR80 setup for 2022 with build list. Big thanks to A3G Munitions for the custom carbon fiber handguard. The shorter cut means I can use the barrel shroud OR the short nut. The front end is much easier to swing and it puts the center of gravity further back on the gun.Although the vertical grip screams "My first AR" it allows me to push the butt stock firmly back into the shoulder pocket every time. Dot movement on the RDS is near zero.Other little things you can't see:- Polished feed ramp- Material removed in lower receiver to ensure good fitment of hammer springs (springs lay flat on either side)- Gentle polishing of the extractor cut on the barrel extension to prevent shells from hanging up on it- Flex-honed barrel to smooth out the the barrel ports- Ported barrel (6 holes), did it myselfCompared with a muzzle brake, I believe the barrel ports combined with the ability to pull the gun into my shoulder better with the vertical grip does more to reduce perceived recoil.After two matches, it is clear this gun will run! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gerritm Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 Looks good, should be a shooter. I have been experimenting with what must be an older style Taccom ULW brake. It doesn't have the opening in the top, just sides. So I drilled out the top with 3-3/8 holes to see if it pushes the nose down instead of porting the barrel. Shooting a 3-gun match this weekend, see how it works. gerritm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boomstick303 Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 On 3/4/2019 at 8:43 PM, AFguywhoshoots said: Some one said you can remove the tab that holds the bolt back in empty and they will drop free. Removing the lock back tab on the mags helps in tuning the magazines anyway. That lock back Tab creates a ton of drag on the follower. It has made a world of difference in the operation of the magazines once they are removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boomstick303 Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 Anyone have a good source for B&P 3 Gun shot gun slugs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CO3Gunner Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 Posting this here because I know there are at least one or two Colorado shooters on this thread. If you live in the Colorado Springs / Denver area and have been thinking about getting into 3-Gun, SoCo (Southern Colorado) Shooting Sports will be putting on an Intro to 3-Gun Class this coming Saturday, April 2 from 11am - 2pm at the Pikes Peak Gun Club. Best part is that there will be a match the next day to put your new skills to work! This will be a great basics class to get started. Cost is $50, plan to bring 40 rounds each of birdshot, pistol, and rifle ammo. Guns & equipment are optional, bring what you have or use any of our demo guns & equipment. A full 3-gun stage will be set up for attendees to learn and work on their 3-gun skills. Sign up on Practiscore: https://practiscore.com/soco-3-gun-intro-to-3-gun-class-june/register Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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