Chrisyoung Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 Hey I'm having a problem with some new sns 147gr rn I'm trying out. The coating is coming off around the base I've try a col from 1.135 to 1.170 and it's still there. crimp is .379-.380 and I'm flaring to .400. I've been loading blues and never had this happen and I believe its cause the leading I'm starting to see. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowdyb Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 based on the picture, you're still removing too much of the case mouth belling. I try not to go by a number but rather funtion and observation. The setting I decide to use is one where when I pull a bullet there is no line and all in the coating. None. And then as long as it also case gauges or plunks in the barrel I am done. as far as the base of your bullet i have two questions. are you using an undersize die to size and deprime your cases? are you using a lee factory crimp die? if so, i would try removing either from usage. and then more remotely, if you are seating bullets when they aren't very concentric or centered on the case mouth you could be damaging the coating then as well. i know it is unpopular to say it, but one reason why i use coated bullets then quit them. and then use them again and quit them and repeat the cycle is just because of things like this. they have in my experience, regardless of brand, been just a little more finicky in the press and my reloading operations. just not very tolerant. whereas plated or even better jacketed allow me tons of leeway and present few recurring issues. so, it's a battle between price and attention to set up. only you can choose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IHAVEGAS Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 I've shot several thousand of them, the only leading I've seen is with a 929 revolver and I do not think it is a bullet issue. I do not crimp to the point where a crimp line is detectable on the bullet, just enough to bring the brass back to the bullet, although I'm sure it is just the high picture magnification that makes your crimp look severe. I know too much crimp will hose your accuracy but I do not know if it will increase the chance of barrels leading. On the first page of the SNS website they state that fast burning powders are usually associated with any leading issues & they suggest Alliant Performance Pistol (double check me on the name, if I've got the name right there is a thread on that powder here). I've been using fast burning powders to date but am going to try the new stuff because it is priced fair & supposed to burn very clean & it might possibly help the 929. I would not hesitate to call them if I were you, they are a friendly bunch & may have better insights. Good luck!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IHAVEGAS Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 3 minutes ago, rowdyb said: as far as the base of your bullet i have two questions. are you using an undersize die to size and deprime your cases? are you using a lee factory crimp die? if so, i would try removing either from usage. I was typing as you were. I'm not sure there is a reason to care about the light scraping shown? My assumption is that the coating never survives the rifling completely intact and that spin creates forgiveness for this as well as other bullet and barrel imperfections. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowdyb Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 (edited) well, if breaking or marring the coating from 'crimp' matters to accuracy then I have to imagine the coating at the base does as well. i mean, any imperfection in how the bullet obdurates with the lands and grooves is going to cause an issue right? i was under the impression that the coatings stayed intact through the whole sequence of firing..... Edited August 14, 2018 by rowdyb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrisyoung Posted August 14, 2018 Author Share Posted August 14, 2018 17 minutes ago, rowdyb said: based on the picture, you're still removing too much of the case mouth belling. I try not to go by a number but rather funtion and observation. The setting I decide to use is one where when I pull a bullet there is no line and all in the coating. None. And then as long as it also case gauges or plunks in the barrel I am done. as far as the base of your bullet i have two questions. are you using an undersize die to size and deprime your cases? are you using a lee factory crimp die? if so, i would try removing either from usage. and then more remotely, if you are seating bullets when they aren't very concentric or centered on the case mouth you could be damaging the coating then as well. i know it is unpopular to say it, but one reason why i use coated bullets then quit them. and then use them again and quit them and repeat the cycle is just because of things like this. they have in my experience, regardless of brand, been just a little more finicky in the press and my reloading operations. just not very tolerant. whereas plated or even better jacketed allow me tons of leeway and present few recurring issues. so, it's a battle between price and attention to set up. only you can choose. I'm use a dillon square deal b I'll try backing off the crimp till it will just pass the gauge and plunk test and give that a try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IHAVEGAS Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 1 hour ago, rowdyb said: i was under the impression that the coatings stayed intact through the whole sequence of firing..... I'm used to seeing a bit of scraped coating when I find a remnant laying about, so, perhaps wrongly, I've tended to assume that the spin of the bullet allows it to fly straight with some degree of nonconformity around the circumference. From a tree in my backyard (who can afford a chainsaw these days) I think the 3 40's are bayou and the 2 red 9's are SNS, not sure about the orange 9. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steelslinger86 Posted August 15, 2018 Share Posted August 15, 2018 I shoot the 147 grain flat nose 9mm from Sns and they have been a great bullet for me. I would suggest trying a little less crimp as others have suggested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevrofreak Posted August 15, 2018 Share Posted August 15, 2018 I love the quality and consistency of SNS bullets, but I got barrel leading no matter what powder was used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrisyoung Posted August 15, 2018 Author Share Posted August 15, 2018 I backed off the crimp until it would barely chamber to no avail also pulled a bullet before the crimp die and it still had the ring at the base and some of the coating gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAP Posted August 15, 2018 Share Posted August 15, 2018 Just my 2 cents. I have shot thousands of coated Bullets through my CZ 9 and 40 cal Limited Gun. I mostly shoot ACME and my own cast and coated Bullets. I have loaded many bullets without a “perfect” coating with no problems with leading. To much crimp can affect accuracy. When I was setting up a new crimp die for my 9 mm, I had several hundred Bullets that had “excessive” crimp. Accuracy suffered but I didn’t have leading in my barrel. In my opinion proper bullet fit is more important to prevent leading. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furrly Posted August 15, 2018 Share Posted August 15, 2018 Could be your sizing die.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrisyoung Posted August 15, 2018 Author Share Posted August 15, 2018 6 hours ago, Furrly said: Could be your sizing die.. Can you please elaborate as in what I should be looking a after sideing that might be problematic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve RA Posted August 15, 2018 Share Posted August 15, 2018 You might get a sample pack of bullets sized .357 or .358 and try them. I've had the best luck with .358 bullets in a Kart barrel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furrly Posted August 15, 2018 Share Posted August 15, 2018 2 hours ago, Chrisyoung said: Can you please elaborate as in what I should be looking a after sideing that might be problematic? What sizing die are you running..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrisyoung Posted August 15, 2018 Author Share Posted August 15, 2018 15 minutes ago, Furrly said: What sizing die are you running..? Dillon square deal b 9mm dies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furrly Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 If you have any other sizing die, switched it out, Process of elimination.. Like others have stated could be the bullet.. Also Load your blues again and see if it does it.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrisyoung Posted August 16, 2018 Author Share Posted August 16, 2018 1 minute ago, Furrly said: If you have any other sizing die, switched it out, Process of elimination.. Like others have stated could be the bullet.. Also Load your blues again and see if it does it.. Can't really switch die the square deal die are Proprietary. I just pulled a few blues and loaded them with the same set up and they come out fine. I'm thinking the sns being size .356 vs the blues at .355 might be the culprit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L3324temp Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 When I had a square deal in 9mm I always found the sizing die to be rather aggressive. If your bell is enough and you still get this, you will likely have to accept it. IMOSent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furrly Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 1 hour ago, Chrisyoung said: Can't really switch die the square deal die are Proprietary. I just pulled a few blues and loaded them with the same set up and they come out fine. I'm thinking the sns being size .356 vs the blues at .355 might be the culprit Yup, there is your culprit.. Bullets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njl Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 I have a real hard time believing that the bullets are sized to .356 and the crimp is at .379-.380, and you're making that deep an impression on them. Regardless, I'd suggest backing off on the crimp until you're no longer making such a clearly visible crimp ring on the bullet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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