What is your worst match experience?

[stick]

Worst Match experience ever!

I’m a member of a club that hosts several matches per month in several shooting disciplines.  The club and individuals shall remain nameless for anonymity purposes.  I signed up for the April monthly steel challenge match on March 9^th.  I arrive at the match early as usual with a friend to walk though, check-in, load mags and mentally prepare for the shoot.  At the shooter’s briefing, the match director explains that several registered shooters are not attending the match.  Not a big deal (it happens all the time).  He then explains that two squads are being merged. Another squad was being added to my squad to make one full squad.  We get the tablets and the wrong squads were merged.  Our squad was not listed on the tablet.  Not a big deal right?  We decide to just add the missing shooters to the squad.  We then notice that we have fourteen shooters on our squad.  We get the match director from the squad behind us to figure out why we have such a large squad.  He sees that we are adding the missing shooters from the original squad into the tablet.  He immediately starts yelling and threatening to DQ my friend for touching the tablet.  I was ROing shooters and manually writing down times to reduce the time we were going to spend trying to get the shooters information synced into the tablets.  I hand off the timer and immediately approach the match director to explain what was going on.  He immediately starts yelling at me and threatened to DQ me.  He also stated “you’ll never shoot here again”.  Now I’m pissed!  I immediately seek out the club president (who was also shooting the match) and inform him of the match director’s behavior.  He promised to handle it.  But the damage was done.  I was done mentally before I ever fired a shot.  Our squad sucked!  We basically had 3 of us doing all the duties of scoring and ROing.  Everyone else just did nothing.  After the completion of the match, the same three of us were helping clean up.  Everyone else just did the shoot and scoot.  I never got into the correct mindset.  I’m not one to push conflict, but I won’t back down when I’m threatened.  I’m so upset that I’m considering not shooting that match anymore while (person X) is match director.  I shoot USPSA, Action Steel and Steel Challenge.  My focus is currently on Steel Challenge since I’m only 5.88% away from making GM in PCCO.  If I boycott the match at my home club, it would only leave me shooting one steel challenge match a month.

Thoughts or comments?

 

[Hi-Power Jack]

I've shot at more than a dozen different clubs, sometimes in multi-discipline shoots,

and have found that at times, conflict with an individual RO or even MD can occur.

 

Simply a personal choice - be wary of the individual and continue to shoot with him/her,

or just walk away.

 

My decision has always been to continue to shoot, since I LOVE competitive shooting,

but each of us is different - just as easy (or easier) to just walk away and shoot somewhere

else.

 

I'm not sure that it's ever a good idea to grab the tablets and start entering data into it 

without first discussing it with the MD, though    

 

p.s.  I notice you wrote this posting at 3:30 a.m. on Saturday night/Sunday morning.

         I wonder if you'll feel a little differently when the sun comes up ?

Edited April 8, 2018 by Hi-Power Jack
spelling

[BenBreeg]

I only had one bad match experience, my first.  There were only about 6 on our squad and the guy who was ROing had also brought a new shooter.  On one stage where you basically are forced through a corridor and just shoot through openings on either side he realized he missed an array and comes barrelling back straight towards us, barrel of his open gun which he was having all kinds of issues with and didn’t seem all that familiar with pointed right at us.  No DQ.

 

Then the shooter didnt understand the stage briefing on a Virginia count stage with mandatory shooting sequence and when he messed it up is yelling and dropping f-bombs at his friend the RO.

 

 

[jkrispies]

6 hours ago, stick said:

My focus is currently on Steel Challenge since I’m only 5.88% away from making GM in PCCO.  If I boycott the match at my home club, it would only leave me shooting one steel challenge match a month.

Thoughts or comments?

 

 

I too shoot SC pretty much exclusively due to time constraints, plus back pain and tendonitis issues that keep creeping up.  I have three SC clubs within a 2 hours drive of me, but I only shoot at one, so don't sweat that part, IMHO.  Get Nimitz's banners if you don't have them already (I think you stated in a post somewhere else that you have them?) and dryfire practice with those.  I've found that my monthly match, plus daily dryfire, and hopefully an occasional trip to any range for live fire keeps me happy.  I shoot for the love of shooting, not to prove to the world that I'm "the best."  Regarding you making GM with only one match per month, I totally understand what you're saying, but... if I can do it with multiple guns on a typical diet of only one match per month, then ANYBODY can do it.  It's a matter of having patience and enough self-forgiveness to let it go when you have a bad day at a match, because it really does stink when that one bad day is really one bad month.  Just let it go when that happens. Ultimately with the way the classification system is designed in SC, you WILL get there, and it probably won't take as long as you might fear.

 

To answer the title topic, I would say that my worst SC match experience was a non-experience.  Years ago, only one club in my area (maybe the whole state) existed for SC, and that club was to host the state championship match.  Rimfire rifle back was in its infancy as a division, and it was common for me to win in that division... probably due in large part to the lack of competition.  I really threw myself into training for RFRO for the better part of a year leading up to the match, and I thought there was a reasonable chance that I would win based on the small number of competitors and the fact that I was getting pretty good at it, even when I did have some challengers thrown my way. The match was scheduled for late December... and for several days leading up to the match it rained.  I thought the rain was only moderate, but my impression was probably heavily salted by my desire to shoot, and the MD was (in hindsight, probably justifiably) more concerned about people driving to the match from the northern part of the state.  The match was cancelled.  Okay, life happens, so I asked the MD when the reschedule would be.  His answer was that he was done hosting SC matches, ever, and there would be no reschedule.  WHAT?!?!?!?!?!?  Since he was the only guy setting up SC matches in my area, I didn't shoot another SC match for probably 5 years after that.

 

On the plus side, I like to think of myself as likely state champion for that year.  It makes me feel good.  

[promtcy]

lol, he didn't tell you the whole story. This MD took over in Jan or Feb. I am not sure if he's ever been an MD before but the quality and fun factor for the match has gone way downhill in just the short time he's been in place. Granted, the previous MD left a very high bar for him to live up too. We typically have 60-80 shooters and shoot all 8 stages. 

 

There is a squad that is typically slower than the rest and in an attempt to speed them up he moves other squads starting stages. Not a huge deal,  It's just that I squad myself on the stage I like to start on. In fact I have not started on the stage I wanted since he took over.  Imho he should squad himself with that slow squad and help them along, not move the rest of us around. What he's doing hasn't been working. We ended up being the last squad this month due to the mix up with tablet's and some other stuff listed below.

 

The last two months we've had a timer either go dead or they were dead already. Quite a few of them had really low battery life. We've also run into a lot of 2x4's that are close to breaking when the match starts. If you get people missing low or a few 45 ACP rounds hitting them it's not long before we are searching for replacement boards. He made some comments in the briefing about someone last month who forgot to put in their USPSA number and asked him to get that in because this person would move from a C to a B. His comments were that he wouldn't do it again and something about "especially for a C to B shooter". 

 

All the people involved are volunteers so it's hard to complain. Especially since I can't help with this match because of my work schedule. I do help with other stuff on the range. It's just disappointing. I get the feeling that instead of trying to ensure the match goes smoothly, he's just trying to establish his authority. I'm sure he's not doing it intentionally and dead timers and broken boards are going to happen. We're just used to it being the exception and not the rule. 

 

Edited April 8, 2018 by promtcy

[Nathanb]

Why didn’t you go find him when you noticed the tablet was wrong? It also sounds like you needed to speak up to your squad about helping as well. 

 

If you’ve never been a match director before you have no idea how much goes into it. If you have then you realize some people are just not cut out for it. 

 

Slow squads can ruin a day for everyone. I have on more than one occasion moved things around to try to fix it. I’ve moved people to balance squad numbers out. The ROS have the biggest bearing on how fast a squad moves imo. 

 

[Nimitz]

11 hours ago, promtcy said:

lol, he didn't tell you the whole story. This MD took over in Jan or Feb. I am not sure if he's ever been an MD before but the quality and fun factor for the match has gone way downhill in just the short time he's been in place. Granted, the previous MD left a very high bar for him to live up too. We typically have 60-80 shooters and shoot all 8 stages. 

 

There is a squad that is typically slower than the rest and in an attempt to speed them up he moves other squads starting stages. Not a huge deal,  It's just that I squad myself on the stage I like to start on. In fact I have not started on the stage I wanted since he took over.  Imho he should squad himself with that slow squad and help them along, not move the rest of us around. What he's doing hasn't been working. We ended up being the last squad this month due to the mix up with tablet's and some other stuff listed below.

 

The last two months we've had a timer either go dead or they were dead already. Quite a few of them had really low battery life. We've also run into a lot of 2x4's that are close to breaking when the match starts. If you get people missing low or a few 45 ACP rounds hitting them it's not long before we are searching for replacement boards. He made some comments in the briefing about someone last month who forgot to put in their USPSA number and asked him to get that in because this person would move from a C to a B. His comments were that he wouldn't do it again and something about "especially for a C to B shooter". 

 

All the people involved are volunteers so it's hard to complain. Especially since I can't help with this match because of my work schedule. I do help with other stuff on the range. It's just disappointing. I get the feeling that instead of trying to ensure the match goes smoothly, he's just trying to establish his authority. I'm sure he's not doing it intentionally and dead timers and broken boards are going to happen. We're just used to it being the exception and not the rule. 

 

A couple of points for everyone to consider:

-  except for the MD, all the volunteers who help do setup, registration and drive the cart around picking up match props for the individual stage breakdowns by squad members are still the same

-  the Nooks were beginning to have issues under the previous MD and I believe the current budget proposal has new Nooks in it

-  squad assignments & shooting bay numbers never coincided under the old MD;  IE. squad 1 didn't necessarily start in bay 1; you always had to check the whiteboard to see where you started;  this was done so that a shooter didn't always start on the same stage every month

-  it's not really realistic to believe that new 2x4s will be put out before every match;  unless I'm mistaken, the SC Connex has replacement 2x4s; they may not be cut to the exact length needed but someone always has a portable circular saw handy and can cut it to the right height fairly quickly

- I'm fairly certain the MD did in fact fix the issue with the shooter's SCSA missing number ...

[Hwjack]

20 hours ago, stick said:

... He then explains that two squads are being merged. Another squad was being added to my squad to make one full squad.  We get the tablets and the wrong squads were merged.  Our squad was not listed on the tablet.  Not a big deal right?  We decide to just add the missing shooters to the squad.  We then notice that we have fourteen shooters on our squad.  We get the match director from the squad behind us to figure out why we have such a large squad.  He sees that we are adding the missing shooters from the original squad into the tablet. 

Just read these and there’s more to the story. The two squads were merged and the missing stages added (which added 30-40 minutes to the start time) before  the tablets were sent to each squad. Had you not taken it upon yourself to move people, you would have been on a 10 person squad (merger of 2 groups with 5 each) as announced in the shooter’s briefing. You were neither the registration check-in authorized to change the nooks nor MD.  

[promtcy]

2 hours ago, Nimitz said:

A couple of points for everyone to consider:

-  except for the MD, all the volunteers who help do setup, registration and drive the cart around picking up match props for the individual stage breakdowns by squad members are still the same

-  the Nooks were beginning to have issues under the previous MD and I believe the current budget proposal has new Nooks in it

-  squad assignments & shooting bay numbers never coincided under the old MD;  IE. squad 1 didn't necessarily start in bay 1; you always had to check the whiteboard to see where you started;  this was done so that a shooter didn't always start on the same stage every month

-  it's not really realistic to believe that new 2x4s will be put out before every match;  unless I'm mistaken, the SC Connex has replacement 2x4s; they may not be cut to the exact length needed but someone always has a portable circular saw handy and can cut it to the right height fairly quickly

- I'm fairly certain the MD did in fact fix the issue with the shooter's SCSA missing number ...

I wasn't suggesting new 2x4's be put out before the match. I guess it's just that time where they are getting shot up enough that they end up breaking during the match if someone hits them or hits the plate with a 45. Combine that with a late start and a dead timer and we ended up with exactly what everyone has been trying to avoid, a really late squad. 

 

The MD did fix the shooters missing number. I just thought his choice of wording wasn't the best. 

[promtcy]

1 hour ago, Hwjack said:

Just read these and there’s more to the story. The two squads were merged and the missing stages added (which added 30-40 minutes to the start time) before  the tablets were sent to each squad. Had you not taken it upon yourself to move people, you would have been on a 10 person squad (merger of 2 groups with 5 each) as announced in the shooter’s briefing. You were neither the registration check-in authorized to change the nooks nor MD.  

I didn't see all of what happened, but when I looked at the nook it appeared our merged squad was not correct. We also had 14 people standing in that bay, so something got screwed up in the translation. I didn't see or hear everything that transpired, it just seemed like it could have been handled better.  

[Hammer002]

Sounds like there was plenty going on and possibly a new MD that may have been overwhelmed.  I am on both sides of this, serving as both a MD and shooter, depending on what match I am at.  Your opinions of his personality are your own.  When you calm down, try to evaluate if he was possibly just stressed.  If he is, that probably means he actually cares for it to run correctly, but cant do it all, or its not all going as planned.

 

One thing I can say for sure - never should have messed with the Nooks.  Its usually acceptable if its just a division correction, or MAYBE a one person move, even then you better be sure you aren't messing something up.  In the case described, the attention of the MD, no matter your opinion of him, was definitely in order.  Sometimes, even if you think you know what you are doing or what's going on, you don't.  When I am MD, I would prefer all issues be brought to me or at least one of my present board members assisting.  When I am just a shooter, I have learned to have the same respect for the MD.  Even if I think I know how to fix it, I will check with him before doing anything.

 

I have been in several negative scenarios.  One, as described above, being on a squad with a bunch of zero effort people.  Most seemed not to even really care to be there, let alone help out even if they knew how.  One of my most stressful Steel Challenge matches and definitely my worst shot.  However, I gained some personal resolve that day.  I also made what I would call a pretty good relationship with the MD, who was the only other person on the squad that would run a timer, do the tablet, or paint on a regular occasion no matter how much we begged.  I look back on that match as a personal growth having kept my cool and not snapping at anyone.

 

The other is one you may consider, OP.  I felt so offended, threatened, and angered by an RO's behavior once I completely walked off the range and left the match.  Details aren't necessary, except to say he would probably admit being out of line and I would admit I could have handled it better.  He is now one of my most respected local peer shooters and I love shooting with him.  Would we have the understanding to have the interaction we do now without the incident?  Dunno.  But I am sure both our abilities to put it behind and move on made for far better times.  Just something to think about.  And remember, no matter what you think you know about running a match, until you do, you just dont know how difficult it can be.

 

---Side note, our local club puts out an extra 5 foot 2x4 on each stage.  A very good idea when its needed.

 

Hope it all works out for you guys.

Edited April 9, 2018 by Hammer002

[stick]

3 hours ago, Hwjack said:

Just read these and there’s more to the story. The two squads were merged and the missing stages added (which added 30-40 minutes to the start time) before  the tablets were sent to each squad. Had you not taken it upon yourself to move people, you would have been on a 10 person squad (merger of 2 groups with 5 each) as announced in the shooter’s briefing. You were neither the registration check-in authorized to change the nooks nor MD.  

We didn't move anyone!  The original squad members names were missing from the tablet,  We informed the MD and he arrived before we did any additions.  The MD was the one who went off on my friend who had the tablet.  I approached the MD to try and explain what we were doing and he went off on me.  

12 hours ago, Nathanb said:

Why didn’t you go find him when you noticed the tablet was wrong? It also sounds like you needed to speak up to your squad about helping as well. 

 

If you’ve never been a match director before you have no idea how much goes into it. If you have then you realize some people are just not cut out for it. 

 

Slow squads can ruin a day for everyone. I have on more than one occasion moved things around to try to fix it. I’ve moved people to balance squad numbers out. The ROS have the biggest bearing on how fast a squad moves imo. 

 

The MD purposely put these shooters with us because we are usually good at moving people along.  He even gave us both a warning and said if you touch the tablet in the future you will be DQ'd.  Then we shoot the entire match, low and behold when the scores come out we both get DQ'd.  How do you DQ someone after a match?  I can see me getting DQ'd for approaching the MD and arguing, but my friend did nothing.

[stick]

50 minutes ago, Hammer002 said:

Sounds like there was plenty going on and possibly a new MD that may have been overwhelmed.  I am on both sides of this, serving as both a MD and shooter, depending on what match I am at.  Your opinions of his personality are your own.  When you calm down, try to evaluate if he was possibly just stressed.  If he is, that probably means he actually cares for it to run correctly, but cant do it all, or its not all going as planned.

 

One thing I can say for sure - never should have messed with the Nooks.  Its usually acceptable if its just a division correction, or MAYBE a one person move, even then you better be sure you aren't messing something up.  In the case described, the attention of the MD, no matter your opinion of him, was definitely in order.  Sometimes, even if you think you know what you are doing or what's going on, you don't.  When I am MD, I would prefer all issues be brought to me or at least one of my present board members assisting.  When I am just a shooter, I have learned to have the same respect for the MD.  Even if I think I know how to fix it, I will check with him before doing anything.

 

I have been in several negative scenarios.  One, as described above, being on a squad with a bunch of zero effort people.  Most seemed not to even really care to be there, let alone help out even if they knew how.  One of my most stressful Steel Challenge matches and definitely my worst shot.  However, I gained some personal resolve that day.  I also made what I would call a pretty good relationship with the MD, who was the only other person on the squad that would run a timer, do the tablet, or paint on a regular occasion no matter how much we begged.  I look back on that match as a personal growth having kept my cool and not snapping at anyone.

 

The other is one you may consider, OP.  I felt so offended, threatened, and angered by an RO's behavior once I completely walked off the range and left the match.  Details aren't necessary, except to say he would probably admit being out of line and I would admit I could have handled it better.  He is now one of my most respected local peer shooters and I love shooting with him.  Would we have the understanding to have the interaction we do now without the incident?  Dunno.  But I am sure both our abilities to put it behind and move on made for far better times.  Just something to think about.  And remember, no matter what you think you know about running a match, until you do, you just dont know how difficult it can be.

 

---Side note, our local club puts out an extra 5 foot 2x4 on each stage.  A very good idea when its needed.

 

Hope it all works out for you guys.

We called the MD when we noticed we had 14 shooters.  his behavior and actions toward my friend led me to seek him out and explain our intentions.  It escalated when I was threatened.  We were both wrong.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

-

[Hammer002]

On 4/8/2018 at 2:03 AM, stick said:

Another squad was being added to my squad to make one full squad.  We get the tablets and the wrong squads were merged.  Our squad was not listed on the tablet.  Not a big deal right?  We decide to just add the missing shooters to the squad.  We then notice that we have fourteen shooters on our squad.  We get the match director from the squad behind us to figure out why we have such a large squad.  He sees that we are adding the missing shooters from the original squad into the tablet

  

 

19 minutes ago, stick said:

We called the MD when we noticed we had 14 shooters.  his behavior and actions toward my friend led me to seek him out and explain our intentions.  It escalated when I was threatened.  We were both wrong. 

-

 

Certainly not arguing with you, because I really dont care, but the above is the order of circumstances you gave.  (1)Shooters known to be being added to squad.  (2)Squad not listed.  (3)No big deal.  (4)We decide to add shooters.  (5)Then we notice 14 shooters.  (6)Then go to match director.  Even by your account, it would seem you caused the problem you are most concerned with, that you are the ones (you and your friend) who created the 14 person squad by adding who you thought you should.  Someone else here, seemingly from the event, said you were only supposed to be a 10 person squad and you made it more. 

 

Not trying to get in the weeds with you, but it sounds like at a minimum a breakdown in communication.  You feel it was from the MD.  Still probably never should have messed with the tablets cause then you are only reporting a problem you cannot be associated with at all.  I dunno.  Sounds like you have your feet dug into an opinion, just trying to say it sounds confusing and tempers flared.  

 

Dunno about the DQ after.  Like the rest of it, dont know all the circumstances, and at this point hard to differentiate anything.  Sure sounds like someone didnt leave it alone, possibly even after the match.  Dunno...just and educated guess.  Partially cause you are still here kinda arguing with others.  Calm down, and fix the relationships if you can for your own benefit.  Even if the MD is the Devil himself and you are an angel.  A year from now you will appreciate it. 

Edited April 9, 2018 by Hammer002

[stick]

Let's put this to bed.  Here's my letter to the MD

 

I have a serious issue with the DQ for Stephen.  Can you please explain what Stephen did to get a DQ?  I fully understand my role in this. (I’ll discuss that later) Stephen did nothing and you berated him and yelled at him in front of our entire squad.  Then you give him a warning by telling him in the future, you will get a DQ if you ever tamper with a tablet again.  Is the future the next day?  If you intended to DQ anyone it should have been me for unsportsmanlike conduct.  I should have been DQ’d on the spot for questioning and arguing with the MD, not the next day when the scores come out.  If you intended to DQ us, why was it not done immediately?  Why were we allowed to shoot the entire match?  Stephen should have a DNF for the match.  His gun had serious malfunctions on several stages.  He didn’t even shoot the last stage.

Secondly, I’ll discuss my behavior.  I will apologize for my behavior in this incident.  I was wrong to argue with you.  I know you don’t have the ability to ban me from shooting there and I just took offense to being threatened.  You didn’t even want to listen to my reasoning.  All I was trying to do was move things along.  I had no intentions of screwing things up.  You moved that squad to ours because you knew we would get them moving.  I understand the stresses that go along with being a MD and working with volunteers.  We both could have and should have handled it differently.

I harbor no ill will toward you.  Being a MD is a stressful and unthankful job.  In the future, I will approach you and offer my apology for my role in person.  I will also take more of a passive role in Steel Challenge matches.  I will do my part to help out, but out of respect for all that has happened, I strongly believe that my focus needs to be on making Grand Master.  I was out of line with my behavior and it will not happen again.  I’m thankful my children were not there to see the argument.  Again, I apologize for my role and behavior in this incident.

 

[stick]

Mods.  Please close this thread.  I'm done discussing it.

[Sarge]

47 minutes ago, stick said:

Mods.  Please close this thread.  I'm done discussing it.

It doesn’t really work that way. This has been pretty fun to read. As an MD I would have a serious case of the ass if you messed with the books without my ok. As a shooter I would have a real problem with an MD acting the way he did. As a matter of fact DQ’s the next day was the ultimate chicken shit move by the MD. Shooting matches are no place for arguments at all in my opinion.

[ZackJones]

My worst match experience was late last month when I DQ'd my wife at the US Steel Shoot.

 

Regarding this situation:

 

1 - As MD/Stats guy I don't like it when people mess with the tablets. If there's a problem you call me. That's why there's a radio in every stage box.

 

2 - We don't have a rule applicable to issuing a DQ for messing with the tablets. Perhaps we should though? :). I'm assuming the MD issued the DQ using the catch-all "Unsportsmanlike conduct" rule? 

 

3 - I found the OP's name listed in the results for 5 matches this calendar year. Two at OK Corral and three at Port Malabar. In which match were you and your friend DQ'd? None of the match results I reviewed this morning show a DQ for you -- at least not in the PCC match. Please send me the specifics of the DQ to zack@uspsa.org so I can look into this further. 

[Hi-Power Jack]

6 hours ago, stick said:

I apologize for my role and behavior in this incident.

 

Believe that sums it all up     

[jkrispies]

2 hours ago, ZackJones said:

My worst match experience was late last month when I DQ'd my wife at the US Steel Shoot.

 

Winner, winner, chicken dinner!

[Hammer002]

On 4/9/2018 at 6:42 AM, stick said:

Mods.  Please close this thread.  I'm done discussing it.

Sorry...couldn't resist.  I know darn well I'm not helping.

Edited April 10, 2018 by Hammer002

[wyliearms]

This years Nationals. Totally choked. The match itself was great. Me, not so much.

[Hi-Power Jack]

39 minutes ago, wyliearms said:

This years Nationals. Totally choked.

 

But you learned a great deal about yourself, and what NOT to do next time.

 

Great learning experience, even thought it didn't seem like it, at the time.