TSO vs STI for limited major

[Bryamill]

Thanks all. I have considered the TS because of the price point. If I can swing the TSO, it seems to have a few upgrades that might be nice to have. I asked above, and I may have missed the response, but do most people use the thumb rest on the TSO? Or leave it off? I guess I could see the advantage for recoil management, but I haven’t used one. 

[B_RAD]

2 hours ago, 858 said:

 

TSO 40s don't need to have their barrels reamed, I load 1.160 easily. My 9mm conversion barrel will feed 1.135 without reaming either. 

Cool deal. Didn't know that. 

 

 

[Magictalent]

I find manufactured ammo works really well in TS/TSO. 

I don't thing too many 2011 run manufactured ammo reliably.

 

[Magictalent]

10 hours ago, Bryamill said:

That’s exactly what has me looking at the TSO. I’ve read that they are ready to go out of the box. Do you find that the trigger is too light?

There is really no too light of trigger to me, if it come at 1 lb, I will love it even more. We want .16 split and not move the gun at all. 

[kneelingatlas]

21 minutes ago, Magictalent said:

There is really no too light of trigger to me, if it come at 1 lb, I will love it even more. We want .16 split and not move the gun at all. 

 

 

[muncie21]

10 hours ago, Bryamill said:

do most people use the thumb rest on the TSO? Or leave it off?

Some people like them.  I leave mine off, as the factory unit is not in the right location and would require me to alter my grip.

[IHAVEGAS]

12 hours ago, Bryamill said:

but do most people use the thumb rest on the TSO? Or leave it off? 

 

"Most" is hard to quantify, if you look at limited guns as a whole it seems like most people either do not prefer them or else do not prefer them strongly enough to spend extra to change guns or have them installed.

 

I did not like it on the TSO, but I did not spend a month trying to get used to it so possibly I could have developed an affection with time.

 

ps. It really is worth finding a way to get your hands on the guns before spending. With the TSO and Shadow 2 CZ has gone after a broader market (ladies and men with lady hands) but that may not be what works best for you. 

Edited April 8, 2018 by IHAVEGAS

[zzt]

The TS is easier to shoot faster in Limited.  Ready to run out of the box.  Ammo loaded to 1.126" will run 100%, regardless of bullet shape.  Mags run 100%.  TSO has a better frame and adjustable sights.  Everything else is just window dressing.  I tried a thumb rest on my TS and didn't like it.

 

If you want a 2011, you don't IMO want anything STI.  If you are considering a Brazos Edge, spend a little more and buy a semi-custom.

 

BTW, I love the 1911 and 2011 platforms.  I have two 1911s, one of which I built myself.  I have two 2011 Open guns.  I'm in the process of building another 1911 and a 2011.  So it's not like I have anything against the 2011.  The OP asked which would be better for Limited.  IMO, it is the TS/TSO.  The barrels are faster than 2011 barrels.  You use less powder to make Major (3.6e3~3.7 vs. 4.2~4.4 in a 2011).  Most importantly, the bore sits lower in your hand on a TS/TSO, so recovery for the second shot is faster.  Slide action is faster.  Those fractions of a second do add up.

[Bryamill]

4 minutes ago, zzt said:

The TS is easier to shoot faster in Limited.  Ready to run out of the box.  Ammo loaded to 1.126" will run 100%, regardless of bullet shape.  Mags run 100%.  TSO has a better frame and adjustable sights.  Everything else is just window dressing.  I tried a thumb rest on my TS and didn't like it.

 

If you want a 2011, you don't IMO want anything STI.  If you are considering a Brazos Edge, spend a little more and buy a semi-custom.

 

BTW, I love the 1911 and 2011 platforms.  I have two 1911s, one of which I built myself.  I have two 2011 Open guns.  I'm in the process of building another 1911 and a 2011.  So it's not like I have anything against the 2011.  The OP asked which would be better for Limited.  IMO, it is the TS/TSO.  The barrels are faster than 2011 barrels.  You use less powder to make Major (3.6e3~3.7 vs. 4.2~4.4 in a 2011).  Most importantly, the bore sits lower in your hand on a TS/TSO, so recovery for the second shot is faster.  Slide action is faster.  Those fractions of a second do add up.

Thanks! To everyone that has replied. This and the other posts above helps a ton. I’ve been concerned about what it would take to get a 2011 the way I would need it to be reliable. I want to dip my toes in the limited major waters, but do it with something that will be reliable and that I can get started with without breaking the bank. It sounds like the TS or TSO might be the way to go at this point.

 

 If my skill level catches up with my enthusiasm in the future, I might be able to justify a semi-custom. With that said, who are the semi-custom builders that you recommend? I keep hearing about Atlas. Are there others that are recommended?

 

 

[Bryamill]

38 minutes ago, IHAVEGAS said:

 

"Most" is hard to quantify, if you look at limited guns as a whole it seems like most people either do not prefer them or else do not prefer them strongly enough to spend extra to change guns or have them installed.

 

I did not like it on the TSO, but I did not spend a month trying to get used to it so possibly I could have developed an affection with time.

 

ps. It really is worth finding a way to get your hands on the guns before spending. With the TSO and Shadow 2 CZ has gone after a broader market (ladies and men with lady hands) but that may not be what works best for you. 

I do hope that I can find one before pulling the proverbial trigger. I think I mentioned that several of the folks in my club shoot the Shadow 2, but I don’t think I’ve seen a TS or TSO. I will be watching for it at future matches. 

[GeneBray]

Your question is like asking do I buy a Mercedes Benz S-Class or a BMW 7-Series.  There is no wrong answer.  Look at things like how do the pistols fit your hand, how do they feel, which one, if either, point better, availability of good gun smith familiar with the pistol and able to work on it (or except the issues with shipping).   

[BLUEPSTU]

6 hours ago, Bryamill said:

I do hope that I can find one before pulling the proverbial trigger. I think I mentioned that several of the folks in my club shoot the Shadow 2, but I don’t think I’ve seen a TS or TSO. I will be watching for it at future matches. 

I am in Raleigh. If you are ever in the area, you are more than welcome to shoot my TSO. Also, I removed my thumb rest after a month, but found out that I liked it much better and shot better with it on. I put it back on the same day.

[zzt]

Bry, I just got back from shooting a USPSA match.  There were five Limited shooters in my squad.  Three shot TSOs and two were 2011s.  There were three Open shooters- one 2011, one Czechmate and one M&P.  The remaining three shot Production, two with CZ guns and one with a Glock.  So six out the 11 guns were CZ.

 

BTW, it doesn't matter how good you will eventually become.  You will never, ever be handicapped with a TS or TSO, and you'll never outshoot it.

Edited April 8, 2018 by zzt

[B_RAD]

22 minutes ago, zzt said:

Bry, I just got back from shooting a USPSA match.  There were five Limited shooters in my squad.  Three shot TSOs and two were 2011s.  There were three Open shooters- one 2011, one Czechmate and one M&P.  The remaining three shot Production, two with CZ guns and one with a Glock.  So six out the 11 guns were CZ.

 

BTW, it doesn't matter how good you will eventually become.  You will never, ever be handicapped with a TS or TSO, and you'll never outshoot it.

You want to talk numbers. How many people in the super squad shoot CZs?

 

Your last sentence is 100% but how many folks shoot the cheaper gun at your local club really doesn't mean anything. 

 

OP, one last thing/question. If the cost was the same, which would you choose? If the answer is the 2011, then ask why?  If you like it better then you gotta decide how much $ that extra like is worth.

 

 

[858]

The only way to be 100% certain is for Brad to trade me straight across for his Atlas. I'll shoot his 2011 for a full season, clean it once (maybe), and just generally treat it poorly. If my classification improves I will declare he is right*.

 

 

 

 

*All trades final. 

[B_RAD]

18 minutes ago, 858 said:

The only way to be 100% certain is for Brad to trade me straight across for his Atlas. I'll shoot his 2011 for a full season, clean it once (maybe), and just generally treat it poorly. If my classification improves I will declare he is right*.

 

 

 

 

*All trades final. 

Sounds like something I'd say!

 

I do love me some CZs. That's what I shoot for production.   Just not a fan of the TS.

[IHAVEGAS]

11 hours ago, Bryamill said:

 

who are the semi-custom builders that you recommend? I keep hearing about Atlas. Are there others that are recommended?

 

 

 

For my money it would be either Brazos or Triangle Shooting sports.

[Bryamill]

2 hours ago, zzt said:

Bry, I just got back from shooting a USPSA match.  There were five Limited shooters in my squad.  Three shot TSOs and two were 2011s.  There were three Open shooters- one 2011, one Czechmate and one M&P.  The remaining three shot Production, two with CZ guns and one with a Glock.  So six out the 11 guns were CZ.

 

BTW, it doesn't matter how good you will eventually become.  You will never, ever be handicapped with a TS or TSO, and you'll never outshoot it.

I will definitely have to keep my eyes open at the next match. It sounds like there are more TSO/TS’s than I realized. 

[Bryamill]

2 hours ago, B_RAD said:

You want to talk numbers. How many people in the super squad shoot CZs?

 

Your last sentence is 100% but how many folks shoot the cheaper gun at your local club really doesn't mean anything. 

 

OP, one last thing/question. If the cost was the same, which would you choose? If the answer is the 2011, then ask why?  If you like it better then you gotta decide how much $ that extra like is worth.

 

 

It’s a valid point. With my current level of knowledge - which is limited - I would probably go the custom route. I’m intrigued by the 2011 platform and if I stick with the sport, which I fully plan to, I see that as the ultimate goal. With that said, I’m also intrigued by CZ and could see that as a much cheaper entry into Limited Major, with the ability to recoup a decent amount of that investment when I’m ready to go the custom route. I did shoot my buddy’s Shadow 2 at the range today and it was sweet! 

[Bryamill]

5 hours ago, BLUEPSTU said:

I am in Raleigh. If you are ever in the area, you are more than welcome to shoot my TSO. Also, I removed my thumb rest after a month, but found out that I liked it much better and shot better with it on. I put it back on the same day.

Thanks! I’m planning on attending some of the Sir Walter Raleigh matches in the near future. 

[858]

43 minutes ago, B_RAD said:

Sounds like something I'd say!

 

I do love me some CZs. That's what I shoot for production.   Just not a fan of the TS.

 

It's all good. I like the TSO, it's a good value. It's not the best gun in the world though.

 

 

[bulm540]

31 minutes ago, IHAVEGAS said:

 

For my money it would be either Brazos or Triangle Shooting sports.

+1 on the triangle shooting sports guns. Ultra reliable guns. 

[zzt]

B_Rad, I don't care how many people in the super squad shoot CZs.  What does that have to do with anything?  Contempt for local matches- get over yourself.  AJ Stuart won the match.  My friend a U class Open shooter at his third Open shoot won Open, beating three Ms and a GM in the process.  Don't discount local matches.  Not everyone who shoots them is a doofus.

 

Bry, you have to decide what you want.  A TS/TSO is a wonderful gun, and it shoots unbelievably.  However it is not a work of art.  In another life I was a Tool & Die maker, and I almost puked when I looked at the internal finish of my TS.  Now take a full custom 2011.  Fit and finish is superb.  Everything moves like it's on silk.  You can literally feel everything functioning smoothly.  It is a joy to behold and shoot.  Would I score higher using the custom 2011 over my TS.  Not a chance.  I'm not limited by either gun.

 

Go out to ranges and ask to shoot other peoples guns.  Offer to pay for the ammo they let you shoot.  When you do, you'll find the two guns handle entirely differently, so you should have no problem deciding what you like better.  That's exactly what I did when I decided to get a TS, even though I'm a certified 1911/2011 guy.

[Dbw2223]

10 hours ago, BLUEPSTU said:

I am in Raleigh. If you are ever in the area, you are more than welcome to shoot my TSO. Also, I removed my thumb rest after a month, but found out that I liked it much better and shot better with it on. I put it back on the same day.

I'm just North of Greensboro I'll take you up on that! I'll be in Louisburg Saturday. 

[yigal]

1 hour ago, zzt said:

B_Rad, I don't care how many people in the super squad shoot CZs.  What does that have to do with anything?  Contempt for local matches- get over yourself.  AJ Stuart won the match.  My friend a U class Open shooter at his third Open shoot won Open, beating three Ms and a GM in the process.  Don't discount local matches.  Not everyone who shoots them is a doofus.

 

Bry, you have to decide what you want.  A TS/TSO is a wonderful gun, and it shoots unbelievably.  However it is not a work of art.  In another life I was a Tool & Die maker, and I almost puked when I looked at the internal finish of my TS.  Now take a full custom 2011.  Fit and finish is superb.  Everything moves like it's on silk.  You can literally feel everything functioning smoothly.  It is a joy to behold and shoot.  Would I score higher using the custom 2011 over my TS.  Not a chance.  I'm not limited by either gun.

 

Go out to ranges and ask to shoot other peoples guns.  Offer to pay for the ammo they let you shoot.  When you do, you'll find the two guns handle entirely differently, so you should have no problem deciding what you like better.  That's exactly what I did when I decided to get a TS, even though I'm a certified 1911/2011 guy.

as Tool & Die maker  i hope u recovered from what u saw in TSO but still its one of the best  cheap good working guns.

2011 custom  platform  vs cz tso  is like day and night .

can't explain  this ,but all shooters from the club that shoot tso for 2 years   immediately raised their competition level scores by 10% -15%. after started use 2011 platform.

2011 platform need good gunsmith to work perfectly. CZ TSO not.

tso  shoot out from the box 99.9% reliably  and u don't need favors from nobody.

as zzt say try this guns from club members.

if u do not have knowledge on 2011 platform tso will fit u better.