.308 for 3 gun AR-10, Socom 16, or RFB

[AngelDeVille]

I haven't shot a 3 gun match yet but I am getting my ducks in a row.

 

I'm happy with my pistol choices (CZ P-09 and 1911)

I have too many choices for shotgun (M3K, Mossberg 500, Ithaca 37, Utas, Ksg, Bullpup 500)

I'm happy with my AR choices (601, 603, 607, XM177E2, M4)

I have an AR10, but I can't say I really like it, and would hate to hump it around. and would use a .556 for 3 gun over it any day.

 

I have the opportunity to trade a couple of unused AR's for a .308 rifle.

 

My choices depending on negotiations would be a Socom 16, and a Kel-tec RFB.

 

I have handled both in the store on separate occasions, and I like both, I consider the handling and function to be equal. So the biggest concern would be the future expense of accessories and magazines.

 

I'm a fan of bullpups, and would switch my glass from my AR10 to the Kel-tec.

 

I like the handling of the socom 16 but would prefer an 18" barrel. and I know it would be a bigger expense to add my glass to it.

 

All of my current magazines are SR-25, and would most likely get phased out for the new platform, and I would eventually sell my AR-10.

 

Does anyone use either of these for 3 gun? What is your preference?

 

 

Edited December 12, 2017 by AngelDeVille

[TonytheTiger]

Seeing bullpups at a 3 gun match is a surefire way to spot noobies a long ways off.

Everything sucks about them, the manual of arms, mag changes, ridiculous bore offset on some of them, generally lackluster accuracy, but most importantly bracing them on barricades and such can be nearly impossible. That and every one I've shot has twice the recoil of an average AR and no way to tune it up.

[OPENB]

If you like the M1A, skip the Socom & look for a Scout Squad. 

[AngelDeVille]

3 hours ago, TonytheTiger said:

Seeing bullpups at a 3 gun match is a surefire way to spot noobies a long ways off.

Everything sucks about them, the manual of arms, mag changes, ridiculous bore offset on some of them, generally lackluster accuracy, but most importantly bracing them on barricades and such can be nearly impossible. That and every one I've shot has twice the recoil of an average AR and no way to tune it up.

 

 

I do know the bullpup is slower, but from what I understand the Kel tec is quite nice to shoot, but I do clearly see your point... But Bullpups are cool....

 

 

1 hour ago, OPENB said:

If you like the M1A, skip the Socom & look for a Scout Squad. 

 

 

I do like the handling of the 16, but I do like long range shooting, it may be an excuse to end up with a 20" barrelled as well. 

 

but yeah, and 18" would be kind of a do it all rifle.

 

I really wish I liked my ar-10 more, then I wouldn't be in this predicament....

 

 

[TonytheTiger]

Whats wrong with the AR10?

[AngelDeVille]

17 minutes ago, TonytheTiger said:

Whats wrong with the AR10?

 

 

It it just feels clumsy to me. An AR feels like a toy, and I love them, and an M1A feels like a man's rifle, and I love them.  The AR-10 just feels like a cumbersome toy. I feel the same way about an FN/FAL.

 

 

Edited December 13, 2017 by AngelDeVille

[TonytheTiger]

Yeah I've never quite warmed up to them either.

[M1A4ME]

If you want a AR type rifle, look at a DPMS GII.  Very close in size/feel to the AR15.  I bought one a year ago.  

 

I've been an M1A guy since 1978.  I like my M1A.  But the GII is a helluva rifle.

 

As for M1A parts, many of them are also M1 Garand parts.  Long list of parts in/on the receiver that work on either rifle.  Parts aren't an issue.

 

Scope mount?  While I have a standard (bolts to the side of the receiver) scope mount on my M1A if I were doing it today I'd look at another "scout mount" from Amega Ranges (other companies make similar mounts).  I put one on an M1 Garand and put a long eye relief scope on it and it is great.  Really great.  It doesn't permanently change the rifle, no drilling/tapping required.  It seems to be stable (the instructions will tell you to tighten up the screws, shoot 50 rounds and retighten the screws - my zero did change that first day at the range.  I retightened the screws and re-zeroed and it has been problem free ever since) and works great.  I use Warne QC rings on it and have removed the scope/rings, shot it with iron sights and then put the scope back on the rail (have to put it in the same slots on the rail) and it's still zeroed.  Did it several times when I first got it to prove to myself it would work well.

 

I put a pistol scope on the M1 but several companies make long eye relief rifle scopes, too.

 

Good luck, whichever way you go.

[Matt in TN]

13 hours ago, AngelDeVille said:

 

I haven't shot a 3 gun match yet but I am getting my ducks in a row.

 

 

 

 

I can't believe nobody else has jumped on this.  Forget the ducks.  Show up and start shooting matches with what you have now.  You'll figure out what you really want instead of what you THINK you want (which will be different), and you'll have tons of friendly people shoving gear into your hands to try out along the way for free.  Just do it.

 

That being said - your rifle choice depends on your goals.  I shot a FAL in 3-gun for a decade or more because I like the FAL and wanted to get better with it.  If you like an RFB, then get that and go for it.  I've shot one a bit and I hate it, but I'm not you.

 

The M14-style can't be beat if you're going to shoot iron sights.  But very few people shoot iron sights anymore, and the new M1As are not as good as the old ones.

 

But everybody winning Heavy Metal is shooting an AR10 of some kind.  Even I (Mr. FAL) have jumped on the bandwagon and am learning to love my Armalite.  It doesn't look as sexy or have the soul that my FAL has, but I'm making hits more easily and scoring better than ever with it.  It's a lot like a Glock - it's ugly, it has no emotional value, but it just works and works well.  

[AngelDeVille]

On ‎12‎/‎13‎/‎2017 at 5:54 AM, Matt in TN said:

 

I can't believe nobody else has jumped on this.  Forget the ducks.  Show up and start shooting matches with what you have now.  You'll figure out what you really want instead of what you THINK you want (which will be different), and you'll have tons of friendly people shoving gear into your hands to try out along the way for free.  Just do it.

 

That being said - your rifle choice depends on your goals.  I shot a FAL in 3-gun for a decade or more because I like the FAL and wanted to get better with it.  If you like an RFB, then get that and go for it.  I've shot one a bit and I hate it, but I'm not you.

 

The M14-style can't be beat if you're going to shoot iron sights.  But very few people shoot iron sights anymore, and the new M1As are not as good as the old ones.

 

But everybody winning Heavy Metal is shooting an AR10 of some kind.  Even I (Mr. FAL) have jumped on the bandwagon and am learning to love my Armalite.  It doesn't look as sexy or have the soul that my FAL has, but I'm making hits more easily and scoring better than ever with it.  It's a lot like a Glock - it's ugly, it has no emotional value, but it just works and works well.  

 

Ha Ha, I showed up at my first action pistol shoot with a competition rig... and a new pistol...   There were people that had been shooting there on a regular basis using all types of CCW pistols/gear, and putting extra magazines in their pockets..  Maybe I like to over prepare.... just maybe...

 

I really do love iron sights, I intend to use A1 556 rifles and sights for most of my competition needs.

 

Maybe I can reconfigure my current soulless AR-10 so I like it more... I think the biggest thing I don't like is the cheesegrater foreend, I'm more of a triangular guy, hate the round A2 style too...

 

On ‎12‎/‎13‎/‎2017 at 5:13 AM, M1A4ME said:

If you want a AR type rifle, look at a DPMS GII.  Very close in size/feel to the AR15.  I bought one a year ago.  

 

Good luck, whichever way you go.

 

 

I looked this rifle up, it looks pretty nice. I like the RECON model a lot, even with the chesegrater.  It looks like DPMS has taken the competition scene seriously.  I may see what I can do to emulate the style with my current rifle.

[Nathanb]

Your ar10 an 18 inch barrel?  The shorter barrel will help it handle much better. 

[AngelDeVille]

53 minutes ago, Nathanb said:

Your ar10 an 18 inch barrel?  The shorter barrel will help it handle much better. 

 

YES it is an 18"

 

I had thought about that,  I'm very used to a 20" barreled A1 with an A1 length stock. I'm sub 1" MOA as it sits, I'd hate to mess with that.

 

I even had an A1 stock on the AR 10 for a while, I'm not positive of the dimension on the current stock, maybe I need to switch back.

 

As far as the trade goes, I'm thinking the guy is going to flake on me, and if I sell off my extra rifles, I don't think the money would go for another .308 rifle.

 

I'd probably end up spending the money on competition shotgun gear, and reloading stuff.

 

I need to learn to love my glock-like fugly AR-10.....

Edited December 14, 2017 by AngelDeVille

[DukeEB]

I love ar10's!  I have 2 now, both with 20" barrels.  I plan on building an 18" soon. 

I wouldn't mess with your current one, not if it's sub moa. 

[Nathanb]

Could buy a new upper. I’ve got two ar10s. One is an sbr and it handles much better obviously. 

[AngelDeVille]

12 minutes ago, Nathanb said:

Could buy a new upper. I’ve got two ar10s. One is an sbr and it handles much better obviously. 

 

I'm one of those people that if I have a mag release, grip or a spare hammer, it's an excuse to build another rifle....  I don't think a spare upper will work for me....

 

I just ordered a hi-speed double taco mag pouch, it looks like it will work for 5.56 or  7.62.

 

I'm researching the shell carriers for 12g now too.  I have been practicing quad loading, it's actually not too hard. And my Ithaca is only a 4+1 anyway so it works out perfectly.

 

 

 

[M1A4ME]

9 hours ago, AngelDeVille said:

 

Ha Ha, I showed up at my first action pistol shoot with a competition rig... and a new pistol...   There were people that had been shooting there on a regular basis using all types of CCW pistols/gear, and putting extra magazines in their pockets..  Maybe I like to over prepare.... just maybe...

 

I really do love iron sights, I intend to use A1 556 rifles and sights for most of my competition needs.

 

Maybe I can reconfigure my current soulless AR-10 so I like it more... I think the biggest thing I don't like is the cheesegrater foreend, I'm more of a triangular guy, hate the round A2 style too...

 

 

 

I looked this rifle up, it looks pretty nice. I like the RECON model a lot, even with the chesegrater.  It looks like DPMS has taken the competition scene seriously.  I may see what I can do to emulate the style with my current rifle.

 

https://www.midwestindustriesinc.com/category-s/313.htm

 

Works great, feels great, pain in the butt to get the DPMS stuff (flash suppressor, gas block, handguard/lock ring) due to all the rocksett they used on all of it but the barrel nut to receiver threads.  Once i got the rest off the barrel nut came off easy.

[AngelDeVille]

53 minutes ago, M1A4ME said:

 

https://www.midwestindustriesinc.com/category-s/313.htm

 

Works great, feels great, pain in the butt to get the DPMS stuff (flash suppressor, gas block, handguard/lock ring) due to all the rocksett they used on all of it but the barrel nut to receiver threads.  Once i got the rest off the barrel nut came off easy.

 

 

 I do have the Midwest handguard on it now, it has the armalite nut.

 

I took the scope off of it tonight, and I'm looking at some Troy iron sights.  I have some cheap 45* on it now, they work well, but if I'm going to go with primarily irons on it I'll get better quality. 

 

The front folding sight costs a lot more than the rear folding, so I think I'll go with fixed front, and folding rear.  I could get a fixed rear, but I'd only save $20, I'm saving $40 going with a fixed front. 

 

I need to to see if I have an other A1 stock, I don't think I do...

[P.E. Kelley]

I LOVE the M1A and won a ton of 3-Gun events with one, but they do not scope for crap.

 

I do not care for the AR10's from most makers....until Savage.  Yes I am a brand ambassador (read consultant)

but this 16" MSR10 in 308 ROCKS in Handling!

 

 

[AngelDeVille]

That Savage looks pretty nice.

 

I don't have a spare A1 stock, but the Ace that I have on it is closer in length to an A1 than it is to an A2. Maybe 1/4-3/8" longer.

 

I have a precision/varmint 5.56 I can trade stocks with to see if there is a difference in feel. I doubt I'd notice the difference on the 5.56.

 

I ordered the Troy sight set for $111 shipped.

 

I also dug out all my magazines, and almost grabbed my Turner sling, but I remembered I hate it....

[M1A4ME]

Be sure to confirm your buffer length vs. travel in the buffer tube.  If the buffer is too short the bolt can strike the rear of the lower receiver and damage it.  Too long and the bolt might not lock back on an empty magazine.

 

If you've already got that figured out for the changeover, great.

[LSnSC]

I ran irons on my Armalite for Heavy Limited/ Heavy Sport . PRI makes a clamp on gas block that is the same height as the reciever.  I used a Troy HK style clamp on front sight with a .040 post, and a DPMS  Short A2 style tear sight.  Progressive lenses and division changes have pushed to magnified optics, but I do miss banging long steel with an iron sighted rifle. 

[v1911]

16 hours ago, P.E. Kelley said:

I LOVE the M1A and won a ton of 3-Gun events with one, but they do not scope for crap.

 

I do not care for the AR10's from most makers....until Savage.  Yes I am a brand ambassador (read consultant)

but this 16" MSR10 in 308 ROCKS in Handling!

 

 

Definitely not a knock against you Patrick, but I’ve seen enough of your videos to know your definitely an Indian and not an arrow guy. You make every firearm you pick up look amazing. And your voice and delivery make for a very persuasive argument.

 

Appreciate all you do for the sport. 

[AngelDeVille]

Well crud, the stock on my varmint was an A2...

 

The "receiver extension" is the same just the stocks and spacers if needed are different.

 

I have this newer manufactured A1 stock but it's so crappy it's not worth throwing away.

 

The hunt begins for another A1 stock.

 

I did find a 20round shotshell quad load chest rig for a decent price, and if I don't like it as a chest rig it would be easy to cut it into two belt rigs.

 

all the pieces are coming together nicely.

[M1A4ME]

You'll need to buy a screw for the A1 stock (shorter since there's no spacer between the stock and the back of the buffer tube) or cut off the longer A2 screw.  Don't want that screw sticking through the back of the tube and chewing up your bumper on the buffer, or keeping the bolt from going back far enough to function correctly.

 

I got my first A1 stock from a surplus place and the second one off e-bay.  Took awhile to "find" that second one.  They aren't too common these days.

[mlmiller1]

Have you looked at the seekins precision forearm?  You might really like the shape & feel.