timewaster1700 Posted November 6, 2017 Share Posted November 6, 2017 Hi, I'm pretty new to USPSA. Only been shooting it for about 3 months now. I'm currently shooting a glock 17 in production but am considering moving to a hammer fired gun, potentially a USP, because I love shooting my USP and do much better with it than a glock. I've heard if you have a DA/SA gun you have to decock the gun and start with your first shot as a DA pull. However I'm wondering if this rule applies to DA/SA guns that also have a manual safety? For instance the USP has both a manual safety and a decocker. Would I be able to run a USP in production cocked and locked with the manual safety on for start? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted November 6, 2017 Share Posted November 6, 2017 2 minutes ago, timewaster1700 said: Hi, I'm pretty new to USPSA. Only been shooting it for about 3 months now. I'm currently shooting a glock 17 in production but am considering moving to a hammer fired gun, potentially a USP, because I love shooting my USP and do much better with it than a glock. I've heard if you have a DA/SA gun you have to decock the gun and start with your first shot as a DA pull. However I'm wondering if this rule applies to DA/SA guns that also have a manual safety? For instance the USP has both a manual safety and a decocker. Would I be able to run a USP in production cocked and locked with the manual safety on for start? Thanks Nope. See appendix D4 special conditions: "Handguns with external hammers must be fully decocked at the start signal" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kraj Posted November 6, 2017 Share Posted November 6, 2017 You could run it hammer back in limited or open, but in production it has to be hammer down or as far as the de-cocked puts it at the start Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timewaster1700 Posted November 6, 2017 Author Share Posted November 6, 2017 Thank you both for the responses. That is truly unfortunate. Kind of puts DA/SA shooters at a disadvantage especially when you could just run a Walther PPQ with nearly as good of a trigger and not have any safeties or DA pulls. Bummer. Well I'll have to decide if I want to train around DA or not. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OPENB Posted November 6, 2017 Share Posted November 6, 2017 The first shot does not have to be DA, but the hammer has to be decocked. You could thumb cock it after the start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted November 6, 2017 Share Posted November 6, 2017 12 hours ago, timewaster1700 said: Thank you both for the responses. That is truly unfortunate. Kind of puts DA/SA shooters at a disadvantage especially when you could just run a Walther PPQ with nearly as good of a trigger and not have any safeties or DA pulls. Bummer. Well I'll have to decide if I want to train around DA or not. Thanks it's only a disadvantage if you don't practice. People who don't practice are at a disadvantage in every aspect of shooting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAFO Posted November 6, 2017 Share Posted November 6, 2017 I've shot DA/SA (226 or X5 Allround) almost exclusively since I started competing ~9 years ago. I did briefly try a PPQ, but it just didn't fit me well. When I started out, my first target was often Alpha/Charlie, but the DA shot was almost always an Alpha. The SA shot was the Charlie, mostly because I was already trying to move to the next target. Back then, the only thing I might do differently than the guys running Glocks or M&Ps would be to select a more open target for the DA shot. As I have progressed, that's not so much of a concern anymore. It's really not as much of a handicap as it's made out to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IHAVEGAS Posted November 6, 2017 Share Posted November 6, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, motosapiens said: it's only a disadvantage if you don't practice. I don't know if that is 100% true or not. Do know that it doesn't seem to hamper the top shooters from getting big wins or even weigh heavily on lowly B class hackers like myself (after a bit of practice). At a local match last month a guy in the squad ahead of me drilled a round through his holster on the draw (no injuries, said he felt the breeze through his tennis shoe) and there is a thread here where a GM shot his leg on the draw (did not hit anything that will not heal), right or wrong I prefer the first shot to be d.a. from an oopsie standpoint. Edited November 6, 2017 by IHAVEGAS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IHAVEGAS Posted November 6, 2017 Share Posted November 6, 2017 (edited) double post Edited November 6, 2017 by IHAVEGAS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted November 6, 2017 Share Posted November 6, 2017 18 minutes ago, IHAVEGAS said: I don't know if that is 100% true or not. Do know that it doesn't seem to hamper the top shooters from getting big wins or even weigh heavily on lowly B class hackers like myself (after a bit of practice). It was 100% true for me.... but I practice... I used to shoot production with a da/sa cz 75b. Now I shoot 1911 or 2011 in ss or limited. When I switched to SS I did quite a bit of timed comparisons and found that my draw time was pretty much the same. On an easy target, the DA was actually very slightly faster, on a very difficult target perhaps very slightly slower. Steel challenge times were the same. Classifier scores were the same. I don't think my gun was magic or anything, but I did practice with it, including shooting DA groups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MemphisMechanic Posted November 6, 2017 Share Posted November 6, 2017 17 hours ago, timewaster1700 said: Thank you both for the responses. That is truly unfortunate. Kind of puts DA/SA shooters at a disadvantage especially when you could just run a Walther PPQ with nearly as good of a trigger and not have any safeties or DA pulls. Bummer. Well I'll have to decide if I want to train around DA or not. Thanks If they allowed single action guns in Production (and that’s exactly what your gun would effectively be) there would be even less difference between Production and Lim 10 than there already is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timewaster1700 Posted November 7, 2017 Author Share Posted November 7, 2017 Thanks for the comments. Guess I just need to settle on a gun and stick with it and practice. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 3 hours ago, MemphisMechanic said: If they allowed single action guns in Production (and that’s exactly what your gun would effectively be) there would be even less difference between Production and Lim 10 than there already is. which would not imho be a bad thing. too many divisionses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatJones Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 Thank you both for the responses. That is truly unfortunate. Kind of puts DA/SA shooters at a disadvantage especially when you could just run a Walther PPQ with nearly as good of a trigger and not have any safeties or DA pulls. Bummer. Well I'll have to decide if I want to train around DA or not. ThanksYou haven't felt the trigger on a tuned CZ Shadow have you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oddjob Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 After some dry firing and some matches later you won't notice the difference. I shoot a Tanfo Stock 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timewaster1700 Posted November 7, 2017 Author Share Posted November 7, 2017 I have a stock CZ Tactical Sport and the trigger is simply amazing. But I imagine a tuned CZ would have a nice double action trigger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammer002 Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 16 hours ago, motosapiens said: it's only a disadvantage if you don't practice. People who don't practice are at a disadvantage in every aspect of shooting. This ^^^^^^^^^^ 7 hours ago, PatJones said: You haven't felt the trigger on a tuned CZ Shadow have you? and this ^^^^^^^ These two statements sum it up completely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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