Arrogance In Our Sport

[Merlin Orr]

Mike,

Non Illegitimati Carborundum

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well said in few words!

[carinab]

Well, my mental game is no where near where I would like it to be. Confessional time: I have been known to cry after a particularly gruesome performance. Or in a group of folks I know well, I might even let an f-bomb fly. Mostly it's a freak out / let it go thing (no toddler tantrum). But if I have ever had given anyone attitude or been anti-social, I apologize now. I'm sure it's happened at some time or another. Sometimes it's safer for me to be quiet because I figure no one wants to listen to me critize myself.

[shred]

Thanks for the contributions everyone, I do feel a bit better, though not a lot. Shred raises an interesting idea that I would like to continue my bitch on.

The idea of serious shooters. I dig that some people take the game to another level and thats fine, but only if you are in control. If you are so "focused" on the match that you have to sit at the back of the range with your walkman on and be all alone, not tape or set steel, and get all shitty when anyone tries to talk to you, that is unacceptable.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Absolutely.

But... try to talk to most any of the Super Squad when they're on deck or trying to work out a walkthrough and they'll likely tell you to piss off, some in nicer terms than others. Once they're done, no problem, joke away. That's what 'serious' should be.

[zhunter]

This is a great thread, and for many reasons, but my favorite is the following that I will now be able to ask:

ZH: What class shooter are you?

Azzhole: I am M Class, why?

ZH: How did you ever get to M being an Unclassified paster?

[walangkatapat]

Thanks for the contributions everyone, I do feel a bit better, though not a lot. Shred raises an interesting idea that I would like to continue my bitch on.

The idea of serious shooters. I dig that some people take the game to another level and thats fine, but only if you are in control. If you are so "focused" on the match that you have to sit at the back of the range with your walkman on and be all alone, not tape or set steel, and get all shitty when anyone tries to talk to you, that is unacceptable. This is a social sport. You dont have to yuk it up and talk to everyone, but you have to fulfill your obligations and be polite. I agree that it is important to squad with like intentioned people, but if you are intent on being selfish, arrogant, and rude, dont bother showing up, cause your killing it for the rest of us. If someone asking you for the time, or telling a joke in the Peanut Gallery ruins your "Mental Focus" you need to take a hard look at what mental focus really is. Ken Grimes is one the the most talented Bianchi/PPC shooters to ever live. He taught me mental focus and demonstrates it in every match. He is the loudest guy on every range, telling jokes and goofing off. But when he steps to the line, he wouldnt hear a plane crash behind him. He gets in his zone in a millisecond and doesnt leave til the last shot is fired. I have literally thrown brass at him and joked loudly about his beer gut while he was shooting and it never once changed the outcome. He has won every major Bianchi/PPC match in England and all over Europe and a number of things here.

On the same note, if you get so mad at how you shot or your gun breaking or any other petty BS that you start throwing mags, cursing, screaming, and being a 30 something spoiled brat, then you need to go see the MD for a spanking until you can act like a grown up responsible enough to handle firearms.

Nemo, on the positive, congrats on takin the kids to Camp Shootout, that musta been awesome. Mr. Miculek is a super nice dude, I met him at the Nats last year and actually have a very funny story about it. He even stood there while I stared like a 13 yr old girl at her favorite rock star. I even got a picture with him.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's Mr. Miculek is a super nice dude, SIR! I had to do it. There's always going to be pricks, arrogant SOBs, no matter what sport you decide to be involved in. The last match I shot we were able to sign up for the squad you wanted to shoot with, does your club do this?

[Genghis]

I'm a bit new to this (shooting IPSC and IDPA since Feb), but I've encountered a lot more to love than hate. Many of the better shooters have expended lots of time and patience helping me learn the sport. Several of them dropped what they were doing and helped me get equipped and ready for Area 4 on very short notice. They've also suggested the equipment to get, and saved me countless bucks. Maybe in part that's because they don't see me as a serious threat, but I'm determined to prove them wrong.

I've generally made at least one really stupid move in every match, but the better shooters have always either kept silent or chided me in a good-natured way. Or pulled me aside and explained how to avoid the problem in the future. The RO's have been understanding and undoubtedly cut me more slack than they had to.

In other shooting sports you see the same thing. I've volunteered at the Texas 4-H Shooting Sports Games the last two summers, and you see kids going all over the facility with guns. They're very well schooled in safety, d*mn good at their disciplines, very focused and professional, and perfectly worthy of being trusted to carry guns around. These good kids will grow up to be good citizens.

I don't know whether our sport builds character or attracts people with character, but the end result is that I have the privilege of shooting with some very good people.

[davidwiz]

I've seen a couple of local junior shooters who think that they are hot $#@! b/c they picked up a few sponsors. They don't help out to tape, RO, run the clipboard, etc and act like they are god's gift to IPSC. And their parent(s) will tell anyone who will listen how great a shooter their kid is.

Then these persons get to the nationals or other big match and get their butt handed to them by people their same age, people who are very nice and friendly, not arrogant, and help out.

[gmshtr]

Kimberkid,

Dude! Where do you shoot? I couldn't imagine if something like that happened at my club, or the clubs I shoot at around here.

If people are acting like fools on the range, that borders on unsportsmanlike conduct, as far as I'm concerned.

On a different note, sometimes these so called top club shooters forget why they're at the match. Many of them can't or won't look at things from a B, C, or D class shooter's perspective, and I bet many of them can't remember the first time they won their class at a local match. (What a great feeling that was! )

There was a guy at the Area 3 Championship that allegedly pulled a paster off of a scored target in order to obtain a hit that he didn't deserve. He was eventually DQ'd for Unsportsmanlike Conduct. I was in shock when I heard this, and even caught the end of the exchange. I felt obliged to steal a quote from Angus Hobdell, which I'm not sure if he heard or not. "It's not like you're shooting to win a new car or anything."

Keep your head up, and don't let people like that get you down. They're the ones that aren't enjoying themselves. Don't let them bring you down to their misery level. Congrats on your accomplishments. I'm sure there will be more to come.

Phil

[Angus Hobdell]

Hey Phil, the funny thing about that quote was I actually did win a car at the Berlin Cup in 1991 I think. Long and short story I will tell you sometime

[infinity]

i've experienced that...people telling u how good they r and how they will beat everyone...just irritates me.i know they have talent but i don't think it's ethical to shove it up to somebody else's face. just my $0.02

[j1b]

KimberKid,

I see your point on the second post - I'd disagree a little though.

Every shooter - I don't care what class, how long they've been shooting, or what their last name is - has the right to a little game prep prior to shooting. That is what I believe "On Deck" and even "in the hole" was created for.

Outside of that, I agree 100%. Most of the big name shooters that I know don't sit on their ass and do nothing. Most contribute as much as they can. When their time comes around to concentrate they do what they need to, then its back to working.

The intensity goes up at any bigger match as may the focus factor - but that's still no excuse.

In AZ I always liked shooting with bigger name shooters because it not only made me better, it showed me they weren't afraid to work either. Mental game my butt, those guys were pasting right before they shot. I learned a lot from that, later versus sooner but still . . . learned a lot.

Today - I have no mental game. If I get a shot to gather my thoughts that's great. If a target needs taping when I'm in the box, hand me a roll - I'll go tape it. Like I've said in the past - if my brain wasn't able to handle that, I wasn't really prepared to do my best on that stage anyhow.

J

[Kimberkid]

JB,

I think I musta said something wrong. If you just shot, are "on deck" "in the hole" or even "in the deep hole" then sit back, chill and prep yourself. I tape til I shoot, but I dig that some people dont like that and thats ok, but if you are 5 shooters out or shot 3 shooters ago, get off your ass.

I have caught a few PM's and a few phone calls due to this thread and I think I might have given an impression I didnt intend for. I agree with most everyone that the vast majority of shooters are great people, with a few a--holes in the mix. I didnt wanna sound like our game is overrun with satan's children, it isnt, I just hit my limit with it recently. I shot the IN State match sat. and had a great squad that was a lot of fun and shot semi OK too.

Another thing that bothers me a bit, not a lot, is that I have noticed at some matches a 5 minute walk through is exactly that, until certain squads come along and it then seems to be 5 minutes per shooter. I didnt wanna say it before, cause I know some people are gonna crucify me for that. Doesnt much bother me cause there is no chance I will ever get to shoot on those certain squads, just an observation.

[j1b]

KK

I think you make some valid points. And all of us that shoot understand that the sport isn't overrun with bad folks. In fact, they are far and few between.

As for the Super Squad deal - sometimes it happens, sometimes it doesn't. For me, that's not a deal for the shooters its an RO thing. If the Super Squad sometimes gets a little more time to look over the stage then they'd be fools not to take it.

I love the sport and the way it is set up. Every thing has its issues, every sport has its opportunities. IPSC, for me, is set up pretty damn well all things considered. Now I just wish it were politically correct so we could all make a little money doing it.

J

[gmshtr]

Angus,

Yeah, we talked about that when we were sitting around at Area 4 last year with nothing to do!

It wasn't the car that was advertised, huh?

See you in a week.

Later

[Jake Di Vita]

I tape until I am on deck and after I have prepared my equipment for the next stage.

[Angus Hobdell]

Tape.........

I am confused what is that.........

LOL

We all get by much better if we all play nice. I have a theory. Not to clever. But.

If there are 15 people on the squad and you always tape for 4/5 shooters then you have done you bit assuming everyone else is doing the same. Make any sense? That way there is always time to pre think clean and load mags go to the can etc.

If you have people not doing their bit then call tapers and brassers at Rio we always call for jobs, seems to work most of the time.

[Paradox]

I read this post at an opportune time.

It just so happens that I experienced a similar situation at my local club for the last match. As others have said, people will be people no matter where and what you are doing. During my last local match, I observed a gentleman acting in a manner in which I was actually embarrassed FOR him. His actions were being directed at a couple of people (myself being one of them). Instead of lowering to his level, I ignored the remarks and shot my best match ever. Believe me - others will notice as the people that matter will respect you more. Every time I witness someone acting like that I just make a mental note of what not to do or say. On the other hand, I have met many more people in the sport that are some of the most well rounded and good natured people I could hope to find. Congratulations on the progress!

[38supPat]

We've always used a system like Angus, if everyone tapes for 3 or 4 shooters you can spend the rest of the time taking care of your stuff.

I find local 'Super Squads' cause most of the grief about super squads not patching, taking too much time on deck, trying to get more walk through time, or anything else super squads are accused of.

Most people that criticize have never been on a real super squad, if you do get to be, especially at the Nationals, don't expect to sit on your butt. If you are not doing your share one of them will let you know.

[Sterling White]

local 'Super Squads'

You have these?

[kevin c]

local 'Super Squads'

You have these?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Self proclaimed, mebbe?

[shred]

local 'Super Squads'

You have these?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Self proclaimed, mebbe?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You often have a squad full of people that want to (and have a shot at) winning the match. They will often spend every second they can trying to get the edge over each other, and thus not-taping, not-brassing and generally being annoying to everybody there to have fun. BEnos readers will realize what's wrong with this.

[Sterling White]

not-brassing

LOL!

That's the norm on the east coast. Emphasis is placed on getting everyone (60-100 shooters) thru 6 stages in 4-5 hours. You want yer brass then ya gotta wait til the match is over!

[kurtm]

Kimberkid:

I sure know how it feels to have your wins belittled, it sucks and it is hard to deal with, and, for me at least, it takes a long time to get over. I just keep telling myself everyone isn't this way, except I find that I am now much less likely to talk to or help people I don't know within the confines of our sport. As Mr. Orr said...don't let them grind you down! Kurt Miller

[pisgahrifle]

That's the norm on the east coast. Emphasis is placed on getting everyone (60-100 shooters) thru 6 stages in 4-5 hours. You want yer brass then ya gotta wait til the match is over!

ANGER!!!! Yeah, I hate that, especially since I've started saving my brass. I shot at a club once where they stressed the same thing, and to do so made every monthly local match a "lost brass." Turns out that someone possibly associated with putting the match on had cut a deal with some local reloaders for them to come pick up everyone's spent brass. Nobody ever would have known about it had the reloaders not showed up a bit to early one day. No one knew where the money they paid for everybody's brass went, either.....

[John Baier]

KK,

I've ROed the "Super Squads" in a few majors and have found them to be very helpful. To the point of a few of them fighting over pasting the same targets.

I too have noticed the occasional bad apple when I've been an RO and also as a shooter. But like they say they are few and far between.

I've been lucky to shoot with a great bunch of folks, from GM to D class and they are all class acts. Congrats on your wins!!! I too have been working real hard this year and its starting to show. Still haven't won a match yet, but I can't wait