Does dry fire really help?

[mikeinctown]

On ‎8‎/‎25‎/‎2017 at 2:19 PM, Cuz said:

Does anyone have a list of specific dry fire drills that work for them? Laid out in a 15-45 minute practice routine?

Thanks,
- Cuz



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Check out the Stoeger website and click on the dry fire training. He also has a book out with dry fire exercises. I can't honestly go more than 15-20 minutes at a time before I start screwing up and getting slower. You also need to mix things up. 5 minutes on one given thing is usually enough for one day because you can do it dozens of times in that 5 minutes. Stoeger has also talked about this in his podcast. He has said that 5 minutes for him on any one thing in dry fire is more than enough before it gets too repetitive.

[Cuz]

I do believe it has it's benefits because I've heard it over and over again, but somehow, whenever I try it just feels silly and I usually quit before I get any real practice in.  I must be doing something wrong, or am just not "that" committed to getting better.

 

[Flatland Shooter]

2 minutes ago, Cuz said:

I do believe it has it's benefits because I've heard it over and over again, but somehow, whenever I try it just feels silly and I usually quit before I get any real practice in.  I must be doing something wrong, or am just not "that" committed to getting better.

 

 

Are you using a timer with a par time function?  Without mine, dry fire gets boring quickly.  I like to set up "stages" with several targets and plates (paper, not steel) and it makes a world of difference.  Set up a classifier once in a while, especially those with different start positions.  If you have the room, include some movement.

 

Be honest with your hits and see what par times you can beat.  Keep track and watch for improvement. Also, do not expect to do the same times in a match.  My dry fire "El Presidente" can be under 5 seconds.  Real life not nearly so good.

[Hawk21]

When you say "be honest with your hits" what exactly are you referring to?  Are you using a laserlyte training system or just eyeballing your sight picture against a metric target?

[CrashDodson]

Its shot calling. The same way you would do when shooting live ammo. Call acceptable shots meaning the sights were ligned up to hit As or close Cs as you smash the trigger. If your trigger pull or grip is not correct you will see it in the sights. 

 

A lot of time dry fire is usefull for gaining speed.  So you dont have to shoot makups every time but you do need to know where the sights were as the shot breaks.  Your doing yourself no favors by just point shooting or sweeping targets without seeing an acceptable sight picture.  

 

Its good to end your dry fire sessions in a shot calling mode where you shoot an array of targets for a few minutes and make up your bad shots. 

[Cuz]

With a Glock I get to draw and fire once before the trigger needs to be reset. I even went and bought a SIRT pistol and installed the same sights as my G34, but the triggers are so different I feel like I'm wasting my time.


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[CrashDodson]

In dry fire work the trigger hard. Because thats what will happen at a match. I shoot a 2011 and get one hammer fall per run. 

 

There is a way to hack the glock to get a more tactile trigger in dry fire. Im sure someone will chime in.  They hold the slide slightly out of battery with something. 

 

 

[mikeinctown]

2 hours ago, Cuz said:

With a Glock I get to draw and fire once before the trigger needs to be reset. I even went and bought a SIRT pistol and installed the same sights as my G34, but the triggers are so different I feel like I'm wasting my time.


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You are doing it wrong. You don't need to have the hammer fall or have the trigger break for every "shot". For example, my DA/SA doesn't reset into SA after I do the DA pull and pulling every shot in DA is absurd. So I pull the first shot in DA then release the trigger halfway and just mash it back as if I would do if actually firing the gun in SA. Some people here just tape the hammer back so every shot would feel like it is in SA but the hammer never falls. The point is not about making the striker or hammer fall, but rather where your sights are when you pull that trigger back and whether they move or not. You will notice that if your sights are moving when you would normally shoot live rounds that they will do the same when you mash the trigger back in dry fire.

 

Dry fire can be as simple as learning to effectively draw from your holster to the first shot. 5 minutes a day on draws can significantly speed up your draws and get sights on target quickly. For example I shot a classifier on Sunday that required two strings each woth a draw and one reload. I shot at 69%, but if I could have sped up my draw by a half second and the reload by half second on each string I would have shot it in M class percentage. 2 seconds is the difference between 69% and just under 90%. A couple months back I would have shot the same classifier at 50%, if even that.

 

You don't need an hour a day. You literally can improve a bunch just spending 15 minutes a day, or even every other day.

[perttime]

8 hours ago, CrashDodson said:

Its good to end your dry fire sessions in a shot calling mode where you shoot an array of targets for a few minutes and make up your bad shots. 

 

 

I'm no great authority, but shot calling tends to be a major ingredient in all my dry fire. Making up bad shots is not something I do regularly, for better or worse, but I found myself doing it today when dry firing my revolver. I drew to the door phone but pulled the trigger on a bad sight picture, so immediately pulled the trigger again with the sights straight, before transitioning to the light switch....

 

With a 1911-style gun, I get just one trigger pull. I might draw to one target, tighten the finger on the trigger, transition, and pull the trigger all the way on the second or third target.

[CrashDodson]

Shot calling should be what your doing every shot.  But when focusing on going faster i dont make up bad shots. I see them and recognize they were bad but dont slow down to make them up. 

 

Goes to the idea that you cant focus on more than one thing at once. Either focus on going fast or focus on your shots/accuracy.  You should train both but you cant really do it at the same time. 

 

Yes with the 1911 we only get one hammer fall. The key is to use the hammer every time and work the trigger hard for the remainder of the shots. For the longest time i was lazy and didn't cock the hammer for dry fire. I was called out on it by a top level trainer during a class.  You want to make sure your not going to end up with trigger freeze during live fire. After the hammer falls on the first shot the remaining shots are done by a hard and fast trigger pull as straight back as possible. If your trigger pull is bad you will see it in the sights.  You wont have a bullseye trigger pull in a match. You will be smashing the shit out of it for all but the toughest shots. Do that in dry fire and it forces a solid grip to keep those sights acceptable.  

 

I focus my dry fire on pushing speed.  Gettting a solid repeatable grip, refining gun handling and paying attention to the sights. I finish my sessions with a few minutes of "match mode"  where i make up any poor shots as soon as my brain processes them.  Either on a random array of targets or a simulated plate rack. 

[Cuz]

Seems I may have been doing it wrong which is why I probably thought it felt silly and gave up.
Might be time to give it another try.

On average, how much time are you all spending on dryfire in one session?


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[CrashDodson]

I think that really depends on how far you want to go.  I made master in limited a few months ago.  I dry fire 30-60 minutes twice a day.  Unless I have a live fire session on a day I will skip one dry fire session then.  

 

Get Stoegers and Andersons books.  They will help get you going. 

[Hi-Power Jack]

3 minutes ago, CrashDodson said:

  I dry fire   30-60 minutes   twice   a day.   

 

     

 

I dry fired once, for about five minutes.   

 

Wish I had your dedication    

[Balwolley]

Also , it may have been mentioned here.  When you dry fire, do it exactly as you would shoot during a match.  If you use grip "lotion" like progrip or something similar. Use it during your dryfire session.  Don't cheat yourself, when you come up on a target make sure you're actually putting good "shots" on the target, "close enough" isn't good enough, it will make you lazy and develop bad habits. 

[CrashDodson]

Just now, Hi-Power Jack said:

 

     

 

I dry fired once, for about five minutes.   

 

Wish I had your dedication    

 

A lot of people I know think dry fire is boring.  I dont know why it is not for me but I enjoy it.  With 3 kids my live fire opportunity's are limited so I have to get my practice in somewhere.  After the kids are in bed I will do my evening session and then do a morning session before getting ready for work.  If I miss a session I get somewhat depressed.  I just got back from a 5 day trip and it really bugged me that I couldn't dry fire during that time (went to new york and didn't want to attempt taking a gun).

 

In order to excel at anything in life I feel you have to learn to love the process.  If you cant find a way to love training then the top of the ladder will always be out of reach.  It has taken me a while to get my mind set right.  But now I use matches as a gauge of the quality of my practice rather than whatever reason I was shooting matches before.  Some people just want to have fun and shoot with their buddies, and thats great for them.  For me it has become so much more.  The fact that dry fire is an option, and it works, is a major reason I have stuck with shooting.  Being able to improve my skills at a sport in my garage is perfect for me.  

 

 

[CrashDodson]

2 minutes ago, Balwolley said:

Also , it may have been mentioned here.  When you dry fire, do it exactly as you would shoot during a match.  If you use grip "lotion" like progrip or something similar. Use it during your dryfire session.  Don't cheat yourself, when you come up on a target make sure you're actually putting good "shots" on the target, "close enough" isn't good enough, it will make you lazy and develop bad habits. 

 

I feel this is only applicable if that is what you are training at the time.  If you are training as you would shoot a match, then perfect.  If you are training to shoot faster, then train shooting faster.  The wheels will fall off and thats what you want.  Its just like building muscle in the gym, you have to tear it down and fail in order to lift heavier the next time.  You have to learn the feeling of going fast to ever be faster.  If you stay in your comfort zone of shooting all A's all the time, you will likely be stuck in "accurate but slow" for a long time.   Its very true you cant just sling your gun out there and sweep it across the targets and claim a 3 second el prez.   Always pay attention to the sights, but you have to push your limits.   

[Balwolley]

2 minutes ago, CrashDodson said:

 

I feel this is only applicable if that is what you are training at the time.  If you are training as you would shoot a match, then perfect.  If you are training to shoot faster, then train shooting faster.  The wheels will fall off and thats what you want.  Its just like building muscle in the gym, you have to tear it down and fail in order to lift heavier the next time.  You have to learn the feeling of going fast to ever be faster.  If you stay in your comfort zone of shooting all A's all the time, you will likely be stuck in "accurate but slow" for a long time.   Its very true you cant just sling your gun out there and sweep it across the targets and claim a 3 second el prez.   Always pay attention to the sights, but you have to push your limits.   

Agreed,  I guess what I meant by my post was use your gear the exact same way.. put your WHOLE RIG on, not just your holster. If you use grip lotion at a match , use it in dry fire.  If you're doing reloads in dryfire, reload from ALL your mag carriers, not just the first one.  I should have been more specific.  

 

    Yes dryfire is the time to push harder and faster.  But do it with your gear setup the same way everytime. 

[CrashDodson]

For sure.  For a long time I never used my hand grip stuff because its kind of expensive and I thought it didnt matter.  I started using it during dry fire a few months ago and there is a very big difference.  My hands feel like sand paper constantly now but just part of it I guess.  In matches I have seen this correlate to more consistent grip,  Especially when re-gripping after doing a reload which has been a problem for me.  

 

I need to practice reloads from more than one pouch more often that I do.  

[Balwolley]

When I do my sessions I try to load from all my pouches. I will usually use the trees out the living room window "ports". Reloading between ports and sometimes I'll switch to weakhand after a reload.  I would like If I could wear my match shoes while doing this but my wife tried murdering me when she saw me running in the living room with football Cleats on!!! 

[CrashDodson]

Thats funny.  I have been permanently banished to the garage after dinging up the wood floors dropping mags in the living room.  I now dont have a whole lot of room for movement.  I setup some targets and even a wall in the back yard but find it hard to get motivated enough to dry fire out there.

Edited August 29, 2017 by CrashDodson

[wtturn]

Dry fire is vital.  Dry fire is essential.  It boggles my mind that shooters still find excuses not to do it.

 

Just as a personal testimonial, in all of 2016 I was working full-time at my day job and building my house in the evenings and weekends.  

 

I had no time to shoot, nor any daylight left once I left the building site.

 

I think I only shot like 4K rounds in practice that year.  I only shot like three local matches.

 

But I dry fired almost every day.  No matter if I felt like it or not, whether I was tired or sick or not, I strapped on the belt and put in at least fifteen minutes a day, 5-6 days a week.

 

And in 2016 I won my first section match.  

 

In May 2017 I made GM shooting far fewer live rounds yearly than the average GM.

 

All due to religious and focused dry fire training.

 

There is no magic pill, only hard (and smart) work.

[MemphisMechanic]

@wtturn it isn't boggling that the find excuses not to do it: that's simple laziness.

 

Whats amazing is the number of shooters who object to its effectiveness, as if doubting it's 75% (or more) of the way most GMs got fast.

 

Almost universally, the higher someone is classified, the more dryfiring they have done.

 

Edited August 29, 2017 by MemphisMechanic

[Miranda]

1 hour ago, MemphisMechanic said:

@wtturn it isn't boggling that the find excuses not to do it: that's simple laziness.

 

Whats amazing is the number of shooters who object to its effectiveness, as if doubting it's 75% (or more) of the way most GMs got fast.

 

Almost universally, the higher someone is classified, the more dryfiring they have done.

 

... hmmm...

I believe that amount of time dryfiring is directly and proportionally related to  performance in competition.

I want to find a way to prove that is true.

 

miranda

 

[MemphisMechanic]

Not the amount of time or practice.

 

The amount of time devoted to GOOD practice. I spent two years burning in bad reload and draw mechanics, and a loose grip, with dryfire. Fixing it was hard.

[CrashDodson]

@MemphisMechanic I did the same thing.  Changed up my reloads after a recommendation, this was after 10's of thousands of reload reps.  Most frustrating thing I have done in a long time, but it was for the better.