Minor Vs. Major

[ErikW]

I was low on steel practice loads (Minor power factor) and brought some Major loads with me today for my Limited gun. I was running 3.06-3.15 for my best runs on Speed Option when I ran out of Minor ammo. Switching to Major ammo immediately dropped my times below 3, picking up a tenth of a second between #3 and #4. (I shoot it 3-4-2-1-Stop.) I was running in the 2.9s and had a 2.62 before my extractor broke and ended the experiment.

[outerlimits]

I was low on steel practice loads (Minor power factor) and brought some Major loads with me today for my Limited gun. I was running 3.06-3.15 for my best runs on Speed Option when I ran out of Minor ammo. Switching to Major ammo immediately dropped my times below 3, picking up a tenth of a second between #3 and #4. (I shoot it 3-4-2-1-Stop.) I was running in the 2.9s and had a 2.62 before my extractor broke and ended the experiment.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

those are TGO times, erik. of course, we all leave our practice times at the range...

[rtr]

How many rounds of major ammo do you shoot on a regular basis?

How does that compare with rounds of minor ammo?

Even though minor ammo may be faster in an ideal setting, if you're more used to shooting major ammo you could be faster with it.

[BigDave]

What do you shoot for a minor load? If it's a heavy, slow bullet you may be getting the impression that the gun is cycling a bit slower and you're "waiting" for it.

The logical answer, to me, is that you shoot Major PF most often and you are already "timed" for shooting major.

[folsoml]

Bullets are getting there faster. (joke)

[jnshapiro]

It's possible that you're reacting to the clang of the bullet on steel and not transitioning to the next target after the shot breaks. If that's so, then gettin the bullet down there faster will speed up your runs.

[MikeFoley]

I use one load for everything, and it is Major. I too think it makes the cycling seem faster.

[warpspeed]

those are TGO times, erik.  of course, we all leave our practice times at the range...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah - No $hit

[ErikW]

BigDave, steel practice load is a 180 at 850 fps or so. It feels sluggish but I can get used to it after several rounds. It's unshootable after shooting Major, though.

jnshapiro, I had a big problem with the stop plate on Speed Option... Seeing the sight lift off it but not hearing the clang until a bit later was unnerving. Major ammo produced a nearly instantaneous clang, with a mere ~100 fps difference!

outerlimits, a 2.62 on Speed Option is world-record level even with an Open gun. But that's at Piru on match day, just 1 of 4 runs for score. I imagine there are many people who can put up a single world-record run in practice and several who can string together 4 such runs in practice. But as ong45 always tells me, "Let's see you do that four times in a row at Piru in September when it counts."

[kimel]

I used to use a minor load (about 135 - 140 PF) for Steel and major loads for IPSC. I found it really screwed up my timing...badly. If I worked too much on steel it screwed up my timing for IPSC. I found myself needing to run through a 60 - 80 round timing drill before each match (as well as adjusting sights) in order to have a chance. Screw that!

So I just simplified my life and went with major PF loads for everything. One load to set up and run for when reloading. One load to work on timing with. No worries that I will grab a box of Steel loads when heading to a match and end up going Minor. No more adjusting sights between matches (what a PITA that is!) and so on.

Besides, when it is time for Man-on-Man the major loads have another advantage in that they take the steel down easier/faster.

[mcoliver]

Breaking an extractor for a couple of tenth's increase in speed is not, what I call, a good trade-off.

Seriously, when I learned that we had an upcoming all-steel match, I scrambled and bugged the heck out of my reloader for my "perfect steel load." In between the experiment, I still kept shooting major for our regular IPSC match. Man, was that ever a mistake I don't want to do all over again.

[ong45]

But as ong45 always tells me, "Let's see you do that four times in a row at Piru in September when it counts."

too bad we can't just mail the scores in like a postal match huh?

James

[warpspeed]

Erik,

From your post I gather that the only thing you changed was the ammo. Try a lighter spring for minor / sub minor ammo. I think you will find with a lighter spring the gun will cycle faster. Or at least it does for me.

[shred]

I honestly think most of the benefit of minor loads is in practice-- cheaper, softer, quieter. 300 rounds of minor Super is a lot less fatiguing than 300 rounds of major loads to me. If I was running some uberlight aluminum-comped thing, my opinion might differ.

[ErikW]

I agree.

[BigDave]

Erik, since you already load with Clays, try dropping a 135 gr (Raineer, Nosler) on top of your major PF load. About 4.4gr gets me just shy of 1100 fps. BE told me about 135's for steel and Bianchi.

[mark dye]

I have experimented quite a bit with this. I spent a lot of time shooting the steel challenge courses with a variety of loads. I don't think it makes any difference whether I am shooting my .22 1911 conversion, minor 9mm loads, or .45 ball ammo at nearly 200 PF. My scores are essentially the same. The exception to this is that if I miss a plate, the "make-up" shot is considerably slower with a higher power factor. Since you are transitioning to a new target after each shot, I think that any negative effects of recoil are largely irrelevent.

Mark Dye

[dirtypool40]

I had a similiar experience back when I was practicing on plates. I wanted to burn up some minor IDPA ammo and shot about 150 rounds.

3.0 runs were fairly easy, but I couldn't seem to get under 3.0.

Then I ran out of ammo, and switched back to my normal load. I went 2.85 right away and four of the next five runs were sub 3.0 which for me is fast.

Must have something to do with timing to your load. I agree minor SHOULD be faster, but in my case with my load, it just wasn't.

[EricW]

Every time I think about this, I think about Steve Anderson's 1.65 sec 2x3 video.

All I know is that 177 PF works a LOT better for me than 164 PF. It's the difference between a slug of gun and one that feels alive.

[ErikW]

I think we're using the extra recoil to launch the gun on the transition.

[hopalong]

With Autos, until the recoil gets too much to where it is "unmanageable" the higher PF let's us use the recoil and forward momentum of the slide to our advantage.

No such luck with a Revolver though

Just my .02 hundreths !!!!!

HOP

[Harmon]

Breaking an extractor for a couple of tenth's increase in speed is not, what I call, a good trade-off.

Seriously, when I learned that we had an upcoming all-steel match, I scrambled and bugged the heck out of my reloader for my "perfect steel load."  In between the experiment, I still kept shooting major for our regular IPSC match. Man, was that ever a mistake I don't want to do all over again.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

knowing that guy, it could have been his rear sight breaking instead of the extractor!!