1050 musings... easier on shoulder/joints?

[78Staff]

Ok,, dangit... made the decision to add 650 (over another 550) as a second press for Large Primer only... thanks all for the help in the previous threads.

Then I start watching all those 1050 youtube vids,,, ie from socalprepper and xbxsolwind...some good stuff out there.  It just makes me want a 1050 lol.  I don't do the volume, I know that.  But the upsides of ability to swage and primer on downstroke appeal to me.  Cost is not main issue, but I ain't made of gold, either.  However I am not overly concerned about conversion cost, as I would run only one or two calibers on the 1050 I would think, and run others in smaller batches on the 550 still.

Two things jump out at me. and I don't see them discussed much:

Ease of actual operation over the other 550/650 presses due to design - I have a somewhat degenerative right shoulder & elbow issue, and it's only going to get worse as I get older.  I recall one thread (or vid) mentioned the 1050 was much less work, or effort, I guess for lack of a better term, on the press stroke over long sessions due to not having to seat the primer on the upstroke.  I do know that anything but quick sessions on my 550 can aggravate it, if the 1050 could alleviate this that would be worth the cost difference alone almost :).

brass in lots - also noted it was mentioned 1050 was better for processing specific lots of brass vs mixed, ie range pickup, etc.  How accurate is this, and does it apply to pistol, or mainly rifle brass?
 

 

Edited September 4, 2016 by 78Staff

[Jim Watson]

I got tired of the Armstrong Method of priming .45 on a SDB and went all the way to a S1050 for the crimp swage and positive priming.

I don't know if it will be easier on your shoulder, but you have a choice of positions for the handle, long stroke, less effort, short stroke, more effort.  And if it gets bad you can motorize a 1050.

I don't have much trouble with mixed brass, you just have to cull out the small primer stuff as you do with any loader.

[Phlier]

I'm rather new to the 1050, as I just received mine a week ago. i have, however, used a few different reloading presses over the years. I use the middle handle position on the 1050. There are three different detents, allowing you to change the handle length. The longest one gives you the easiest handle operation, but with the longest handle travel, the middle position is a balance between the two, and the shortest one is for the young guys; short travel length with hardest operation.

I'm 49, and am not in good physical condition at all. Yet even so, the middle handle position is *cake* for loading 9mm. Yeah, it's only 9mm, but it is still unbelievably easy to pull the handle. I'll be doing .223 later today, and I fully expect to use the longest handle detent for loading those. I'll update this post later with how easy/hard it is to pull the 1050's handle for .223.

As a direct comparison, I have loaded a bunch of 9mm on my Father's Dillon 550. It is *far* easier to pull the handle on my 1050 than it is on the 550 while loading 9mm. It appears to me that the mechanical advantage of the 1050 is much greater than the 550. It is just astoundingly easy to pull the handle with 9mm. You literally won't believe that all the stations are populated when you pull the handle. And if you find the handle too hard to move in the middle position (unlikely), you can move the handle out to it's easiest position.

All of my 9mm brass is a mix of various range brass collected over time. Name a 9mm headstamp, and I most likely have a few in my collection. In 9mm, the 1050 is not at all fussy about processing a wide range of head stamps. Maybe this is different in other calibers, but IME, not for the 9mm. Every head stamp passes the case gauge no problem. So at least as far as 9mm is concerned, the 1050 isn't fussy about what it eats; throw it that mixed range brass, and it'll kick it out the other side with no problem. And it is soooo nice to not have to worry about military cases being thrown into the mix. Set up your swaging station, and faggetaboudit.

My .223 brass is all various headstamps, too. I'll be pre-processing all of it today, then loading some up tomorrow. Again, I'll update about whether or not it was necessary to sort by head stamp through the loading process.

.

Edited September 4, 2016 by Phlier

[78Staff]

yep, this is sounding good... but not for my wallet lol.  Thanks for the info   

[Hi-Power Jack]

33 minutes ago, Phlier said:

  It is *far* easier to pull the handle on my 1050 than it is on the 550 while loading 9mm. It appears to me that the mechanical advantage of the 1050 is much greater than the 550.

.

Anyone change the handle on the 550?   Can't be too difficult to

get more "mechanical advantage", is it?

[Phlier]

8 minutes ago, Hi-Power Jack said:

Anyone change the handle on the 550?   Can't be too difficult to

get more "mechanical advantage", is it?

There are aftermarket handles available for the 550, but I'm not sure if any of them are any longer than the stock handle, and the stock handle has only one position; it can't be adjusted any longer or shorter.

It isn't just the handle length that determines the amount of mechanical advantage a press has; it's primarily the design of the press.

[DEP44]

I think the lack of the primer seating push on the 1050 is a big plus. If I could do it all over again I would have skipped the 650 and end up with 2 1050's. I'd keep the 550 of odds and ends like 500S&W and such. I recently moved loading 45acp from 650 to 1050 and it seem effortless compared to before.

[Jim Watson]

Insight makes the Ergo handle for various presses. 

Will that make a difference or will it waste a down payment for a 1050?

[NicoR]

Short version: don't think about it anymore, go for the 1050.

 

Long version: I broke just about everything you can break in my right shoulder 9 years ago playing rugby. 8 years ago I had surgery and it went great but my shoulder will never be at its 100% again.

I started shooting IPSC last year and got an XL650 because that is what everyone recommended me, and everything was perfect...  casefeeder, bulletfeeder, and probably every accessory available out there for the 650. That was until I put my hands on a 1050. Man, I saw the light! So gentle on my shoulder you wouldn't believe it! So, being the compulsive buyer that I am, I bought a Super 1050 less then a month ago.

I used to be able to load no more than 50 rounds without catching a small break with the 650, and yesterday I went through 300 rounds like a breeze with the 1050! The difference is HUGE! The only thing I regret is not getting a 1050 in the first place! You could probably get an RL1050 on the used market for not a lot more than a new XL650 with a casefeeder, and that would probably even be better than the Super 1050 because the stroke is shorter in the old press AFAIK.

The 650 is the best press in the whole world... but the 1050 is from another planet!

[78Staff]

10 hours ago, DEP44 said:

I think the lack of the primer seating push on the 1050 is a big plus. If I could do it all over again I would have skipped the 650 and end up with 2 1050's. I'd keep the 550 of odds and ends like 500S&W and such. I recently moved loading 45acp from 650 to 1050 and it seem effortless compared to before.

Yep, this the plan, keeping the 550 for smaller runs of stuff... mostly revolver calibers I don't shoot up as fast :).

NicoR - great post, thanks for the info.  I think the decision is made.  

Wonder if Dillon is open tomorrow...

 

[78Staff]

Well dang ran some numbers and I can get two complete 650 setups for less than a single 1050, and it's gets worse adding a second caliber, but we all knew that I guess... 

Maybe I should try the ERGO handle first lol - Ergo users do you see a noticeable benefit, especially on the upstroke seating primers?

[BeerBaron]

yep the ergo handle does make it easier to seat primers. personally I prefer the regular dillon roller handle on my 650 but a big improvement was adding the uniquetek foam rubber handle cover. it adds to the circumference a little and gives great feel while softening the handle.

the other thing that made a big difference to me is getting stuff at the correct height. I have a fairly high 'workshop' style bench so I don't run a strong mount. this keeps the shell plate etc closer to the bench top which I like. I run a workshop or bar type stool and set the height so that the top of the handle is almost level with my shoulder (slightly lower than my shoulder). in this position my feet are flat on the floor and I have great leverage to push forward. previously press was too high and seat too low. that made it harder than it had to be. 

adding a bullet feeder helps too as you no longer have the fine motor task of picking and placing bullets. this makes it a lot easier to load in a nice steady rhythm. it also means if you get tired you can switch and run the handle with your left hand.

the 1050 is a great machine but the 650 can be made very easy to run. if I had the choice of 650 with bullet feeder or 1050 without bullet feeder I'd probably go the 650 as swaging is not important to me. 

here's a vid of my 650. I'm going slower in the vid so that it was easier to see what's happening. that's loading something like 10.4gn of 3N38 into a 38 super case. very smooth. at the beginning of the vid you can see my hand finishing the forward stroke to seat primers. no strain. As I said that's a little slower than my normal load rate but that would still be around 1,000 an hour rate. 

 

[Want2BS8ed]

Well dang ran some numbers and I can get two complete 650 setups for less than a single 1050, and it's gets worse adding a second caliber, but we all knew that I guess... 

Maybe I should try the ERGO handle first lol - Ergo users do you see a noticeable benefit, especially on the upstroke seating primers?

The Ergo handles from In-Line Fabrication are great. Used them on my two older LNL's and both my single stage and Redding T7 wear them now. It's not so much the extra length, but placing the handle further back from the Benches edge that helps... well, the ergo dynamics.

That having been said, I would rather have one 1050 than two 650's for the priming alone. I went through the same analysis you did and in the end, I actually now own 2 1050's. It hurts the wallet upfront, but I've got a bum shoulder as well and will never look back!

M

[woof]

I used a 550 (started as a 450) for years. Then I got a 1050. Big difference but my shoulder and elbow also have deteriorated and now I have a Mark 7 that runs the 1050. it also seems to load more consistently.

I still use the 550 for small runs of cartridges I don't shoot offten.

 

woof

[glassblower]

I lube my brass for my 1050 and it makes a world of difference even with the carbide dies. I'm also pretty diligent on keeping the press  properly lubed as it always seems easier to operate after a proper grease job 

[ano]

1050 is definetly easier on elbow and sholder. 

 

[mikeinctown]

The 1050 may be easier to operate, but it surely can't be simply because of the primer insert operation. that is seriously the easiest part of working the handle on a 650. One thing I found that really impacts the operation is which dies you use. The difference between using a Dillon crip die and a LEE FCD is a huge one and one in which I found needed a lot of extra effort. It could be that I am feeding coated lead through it rather than plated/jacketed bullets. Still, the Dillon die was super easy and smooth and my 10 year old (when I got the press) was able to effortlessly operate the 650.

[Boxerglocker]

1 hour ago, mikeinctown said:

The 1050 may be easier to operate, but it surely can't be simply because of the primer insert operation. that is seriously the easiest part of working the handle on a 650. One thing I found that really impacts the operation is which dies you use. The difference between using a Dillon crip die and a LEE FCD is a huge one and one in which I found needed a lot of extra effort. It could be that I am feeding coated lead through it rather than plated/jacketed bullets. Still, the Dillon die was super easy and smooth and my 10 year old (when I got the press) was able to effortlessly operate the 650.

I own a 650 and a 1050 both of which are extremely well maintained, and have run the same calibers in each for comparison. The 1050 just for the primer seating alone indeed is much easier operate. You will especially notice it when loading military calibers even with de-swagged primer pockets. I fully process my .223 brass on the 1050 and load it up on the 650. After I'm done processing .223 brass the 1050 is set-up to load 9mm for the rest of the year (eliminates issues when coming across military crimped 9mm cases)

[dillon]

Actually, we recommend 30wt motor oil on the ram, and bearing grease on all other points.

[rdinga]

Ok I admit its easier on my shoulder and everything else to 500 rounds on my 1050 vs the 550. If my wife would not make me buy her a convertible in exchange, I would another 1050 in the morning. 

Edited September 8, 2016 by rdinga

[Phlier]

Hmm.. It won't let me edit my earlier post, but anyway...

I've now pre-processed and then loaded 550 rounds of .223 on the 1050. With well lubricated cases, the .223 pre-processing was so very easy. The handle pull felt easier than when loading 9mm. Since the .223 loading process was nothing more than dropping powder and seating bullets, you can imagine that the handle pull was negligible.

Now I need to order another case feeder tube so that I can keep one for use with lubricated cases, the other for clean cases. The lanolin built up in the tube so much that it slowed the dropping cases quite a bit; it couldn't keep up with production rate. I'm probably using too much lube, but I'd rather use too much than not enough. Especially since the resizing/trim die I got isn't carbide.

[78Staff]

It's funny I was thinking I don't need the volume, but as I loaded 24 CMC & Wilson 45ACP mags today, plus 8 M&P 45ACP mags, I started to think maybe I do want the volume as well lol...

[DEP44]

4 hours ago, Phlier said:

Now I need to order another case feeder tube so that I can keep one for use with lubricated cases, the other for clean cases. The lanolin built up in the tube so much that it slowed the dropping cases quite a bit; it couldn't keep up with production rate. I'm probably using too much lube, but I'd rather use too much than not enough. Especially since the resizing/trim die I got isn't carbide.

I just run a rifle cleaning rod with Hoppes#9 through the tube after I size&trim.

Edited September 8, 2016 by DEP44

[Boxerglocker]

On 9/8/2016 at 3:31 PM, DEP44 said:

I just run a rifle cleaning rod with Hoppes#9 through the tube after I size&trim.

Washing in hot water and simple green and a rifle cleaning mop work too.

[moto727]

just buy the 1050.