650 Charge Deviations ?

[TANFARM]

I spoke with the kind people at Dillon yesterday about my concerns on my powder deviations on some 9 mm loads. One tip they passed on was to always adjust your powder measurement device with the handle all the way DOWN !

I'm sure this must be common knowledge but I certainly thought it was interesting. I'm getting a fluctuation of .10 on my N320 charges..will see if this helps ...thought I'd pass it on......

[mjohn]

I  ddi not know that you were suppose to adjust the powder measure on a 650 with the handle all the way down.  I too us N320. 

However, if you weigh each individual charge separately and compare it to the previous charge I have found .10 variance which might be 1. the balance bean scale,2.  the electronic scale or 3. the powder measure.  HOWEVER, if you throw 10 charges and weigh them as a 1 mass unit, I have never been short and not over .20 for 10 charges weighed as a single mass unit. 

Therefore, all is well.

[alan1985]

I agree with mjohn. There are a lot of variables and we are talking about such small weights.

As for how I set my charge weight, I usually get it to the charge I want and then run 5 and average the weight. If I need to make adjustments, I do so and run the 5 again. If I don't need to adjust I run 10 and average just to confirm.

[Chris777]

Good tip to remember.  I am getting a dillion 1050 soon and coming from a Hornady press.  Did Dillon give you any info on what they considered normal deviation amounts with their powder measure?  My Hornady powder charge would meter ball powder pretty well, but it could deviate by +/- 0.1gr on my 9mm loads.  I usually use W231/HP 38 with 4.5 grain loads.

[ArrDave]

Handle all the way down with a case in place or without?


Sent from an iDevice. Please forgive any grammatical or spelling errors. If the post doesn't make sense or is not amusing then it is technology's fault and most certainly not operator error.

[TANFARM]

I'm under the impression from Dillon that the key is to make sure the charge bar is empty. Handle down ensures this....makes sense.....

My concern on the weight fluxuation arose when trying to go from an N 320 charge of 3.5 to 3.7 .....I'm now rechecking the charges on my other scale to see the variation . I wonder why the Dillon scale doesn't go out to hundredth's ???....maybe this would give me a better feel where the charge is headed.......or am I worried about nothing?????

[Hi-Power Jack]

Fluctuations are common - they seem to have little impact on either

SD or accuracy or velocity - so, not much to be concerned with,

unless you're not getting the accuracy you were hoping for. 

I'm not convinced that many scales can accurately measure

the difference between 3.6 and 3.7 grains, anyway ???

[rhowell309]

I'm under the impression from Dillon that the key is to make sure the charge bar is empty. Handle down ensures this....makes sense.....

My concern on the weight fluxuation arose when trying to go from an N 320 charge of 3.5 to 3.7 .....I'm now rechecking the charges on my other scale to see the variation . I wonder why the Dillon scale doesn't go out to hundredth's ???....maybe this would give me a better feel where the charge is headed.......or am I worried about nothing?????

If your scale only has a resolution to 1/10 grain, how do you know you are off 1/10 of a grain? You don't.

How does it round?
Does it display 3.54 as 3.5 and 3.55 as 3.6, resulting in 1/100 of a grain difference registering as a 1/10 grain difference? This in turn will display 3.45 as 3.5 and 3.64 as 3.6, resulting in 19/100 of a grain difference registering as a 1/10 grain difference?

[Nghthwk1911]

19 hours ago, ArrDave said:

Handle all the way down with a case in place or without?


Sent from an iDevice. Please forgive any grammatical or spelling errors. If the post doesn't make sense or is not amusing then it is technology's fault and most certainly not operator error.

Yes a case must be in place, to open the powder bar before making the adjustment.  and always finish the adjustment to the throw by tightening (turn to the right).

One of the best things you can add if you don't have one is the UniqueTek Micro meter powder adjust kit, get one it will make you happy.

http://www.uniquetek.com/site/696296/product/T1231

[rjacobs]

If you want a scale that will accurately read and display to .01, get a GemPro 250.

Most digital scales are only .1g accurate which is plenty accurate for what we are doing in my experience.  If you are running a load that is .1g sensitive(i.e. if you are .1g off your accuracy goes to hell), find a new load, power, COAL, etc...

My standard way to adjust a Dillon powder thrower is to adjust and throw 3-5 charges and dump them back into the hopper prior to measuring.  When I think I have it I throw 10 and measure.  If I am going for 4.5g I am then looking for 45g.  This essentially can turn your .1g accurate scale into a .01g accurate scale by simply moving the decimal point.  Not a fool proof method obviously, but it seems to be what most people do.

[dillon]

An accuracy in a powder scale of +/- .1 grain is the industry standard. The internal volume of each case varies by considerably more than that. No accuracy or velocity advantage in even attempting to go to one more position to the right of the decimal.

[TANFARM]

Thanks to all........good tip about the case in the plate when adjusting.

Sounds like I'm making to much of an issue about the charge deviation.....the chronograph will tell the tale this weekend !!

[Stangs55]

Any idea as to why adjusting with the handle down is superior to the handle up...?

[Stangs55]

Any idea as to why adjusting with the handle down is superior to the handle up...?

[Stangs55]

Any idea as to why adjusting with the handle down is superior to the handle up...?

[Stangs55]

Any idea as to why adjusting with the handle down is superior to the handle up...?

[BeerBaron]

yes, you need a case present at the powder station and handle fully down (ie ram is up). in this position the powder bare is empty. if you do it any other way you are trying to adjust the powder bar cavity while it's full of powder.

the other advise is if you are increasing the powder charge (ie unscrewing the bolt) go a little past where you want to stop and complete the adjustment by screwing back in a little. for example if you wanted to increase the volume by 1/4 turn I'd suggest you go 1/2 a turn out then 1/4 back in (you are now 1/4 out from your original position). doing this helps remove any issues caused by movement in the threads. 

[NatureBoy]

I'll be trying this over the weekend.  Thanks!

[Hi-Power Jack]

After you make an adjustment, don't forget to throw c. 5 charges and dump them

back into the hopper.

Then, measure the next five (weigh the five, and divide by five - e.g.  if you're trying

to get to 4.0 grains, throw 5 and weigh them all together, divide by 5 and you should

have 4.0 grains).

[GrumpyOne]

1 minute ago, Hi-Power Jack said:

After you make an adjustment, don't forget to throw c. 5 charges and dump them

back into the hopper.

Then, measure the next five (weigh the five, and divide by five - e.g.  if you're trying

to get to 4.0 grains, throw 5 and weigh them all together, divide by 5 and you should

have 4.0 grains).

10 charges will give you a better average, and lets the small variables that can sometimes happen in powder dispensing get averaged in...and the math is easier...throw 10 charges, weigh, divide by 10....you get 66.54 grains in the pan, your throws are 6.654 grains...

[Hi-Power Jack]

You have more patience than I have, Grump.

Throwing 10 charges is just too long a process ...

But, it is more accurate, and easier dividing, also

[TANFARM]

I never took into account the actual variation each piece of brass could hold.  ......another thing to take into account....would explain the .01 possible variations......thanks ......

[36873687]

I did not know handle down either great to know. I use n320 also an get .1 average an use two scales, little OCD. I do know if your using electronic scale fluorescent lighting will throw your scale around 

[mikeinctown]

One other thing to remember (or learn) is that a new powder measure will not have the graphite build up and will have a slight static charge on the plastic and metal parts. Running the 10x drop and averaging helps coat the parts with the graphite and you will get consistant charges that way. i learned in here to use 1x used dryer sheets to wipe down the inside of a new measure and then I store a handful of used ones inside the measure when not in use. Over time the graphite build up will make that unnecessary. Last, I've read (and it makes sense) to fill the hopper about half way and keep it somewhere between 25-75% full. Last, i have read people connecting oxygen pumps from aquariums to the side of the powder measure as it vibrates it some and ensures a consistant measure every single time.

[Boxerglocker]

On 8/17/2016 at 6:42 AM, Nghthwk1911 said:

Yes a case must be in place, to open the powder bar before making the adjustment.  and always finish the adjustment to the throw by tightening (turn to the right).

One of the best things you can add if you don't have one is the UniqueTek Micro meter powder adjust kit, get one it will make you happy.

http://www.uniquetek.com/site/696296/product/T1231

This is so true... with the Uniquetek powder adjustment is so much easier, especially if you switch powders often.