Deciding on a reloading press

[enzo357]

Started with a 550. Great press and will do everything you want. Upgraded to a 650. The 650 is faster. The primer system has a tendency to fail, but overall it is a pretty nice machine. Added a case feeder and a bullet feeder. The machine makes a lot of ammo.

Picked up a 1050 and use it for my 40cal competition and practice ammo.

The 650 is a great starting point. Not too difficult to use. Fast. Easy to change calibers. Resale is great. No BS warranty is nice.

[rdinga]

Get a 1050 and never look back. The 550 is awesome, but if 9mm is your main caliber and loading mixed brass, the 1050 is the dream machine. Primer swage and priming on the down stroke are just incredible. You wont be young forever and loading on the 1050 saves your time, keeps the other half happy, and is easy on your shoulders and wrist.

worst that happen is you hate it and sell it to the next eager reloader. How many used 1050's do you see?

[IDescribe]

Most of the people I've seen say they prefer the priming system on the LnL say so because it won't pick up a new primer if there's no case for the primer to go to whereas the Dillon 650 will advance primers regardless and drop unused ones into a shoot that doesn't do a very good job of containing them.

​The above poster who talked about the priming system failing is the first complaint I've seen of that with a 650. Mine has functioned at a 100%, and it makes me wonder if there's a setup problem on the one that fails. The LnL's priming system can get fussy and flip primers. It's a known issue with plenty of youtube videos on addressing the issue. Many LnLs priming system works fine out of the box, but for those that don't it's not always an easy fix, and it's frustrating. My 650 has never flipped a primer, never failed to pick one up. I don't even see how the primer system could fail if it's set up properly and there isn't any debris blocking operation. For me, the 650 priming system is clearly better. I'll take the unused primers falling from the primer shoot in exchange for 100% function.

I'll also note that the built in casefeeder mechanism on the 650, which you have to reload manually every 10-25 rounds (depending on caliber) if you don't have the automated hopper, is a pleasure. I've gotten quite proficient in loading that tube, and it's nice not to have to place a case every time as I did on my LnL.

​The real advantage of the LnL over the 650 is the shellplate. On the Hornady, there is a thick, sturdy subplate, and all the shellplate does is move the cases around on the subplate, and that subplate doesn't flex to any significant degree under force. The 650, on the other hand, has the case rims slid into the outer edge of the shellplate, which is much thinner than the LnL subplate, and it does flex under force. This is not ideal for concentricity in sizing and bullet runout, and the LnL will best the 650 in that regard. I have produced plenty of .45 ACP rounds on my 650 with which I can hold 10 rounds under 4" in my bullseye pistol, so it's not affecting me at 50 yards, but there should be a range with rifle -- 200? 300? 500? 1000? -- where the LnL would bring an advantage in precision. I have a single stage for that, so I'm very happy with the 650 for pistol and have no need to switch to an LnL or upgrade to a 1050 (which is the ultimate), but if I wanted one progressive for pistol and rifle and were starting from scratch, and my choices were LnL or 650, I'd choose the LnL.

​I have no hands on experience with the 1050 or 550.

[Miranda]

thanks idescribe,

first assessment that has me thinking the LNL has some merit.

interesting.

miranda

[Bamboo]

The 550 also supports the case head on the platform, and not by the shellplate.

I like this and the primer system on the 550 over the 650's support the case by the shellplate feature and its rotary primer wheel.

[safeactionjackson]

If money isn't an object, and you know someone that has a 1050 I'd spend some time on it. 9mm/.223 pare up well with big Dillon. Started on a 550b, but 2K per month of 9mm became a chore. If you mechanically inclined and understand reloading... 1050 is the way to go. No military crimped brass, then the xl650 is also a good option, it does have a couple of quirks, but they truly are just slightly annoying. A good friend of mine has two LnL AP's, after using my 1050 he's contemplating selling both and moving to a big Dillon

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[frankge]

Ive had the Lee progressive, turret, Hornady LnL, and the 650 with Casefeeder. Hands down no discussion its the Dillon. My bulk ammo .40 & 9mm are done with this. I use my LnL extensively for .223, 7.62x39 .45. 38 and other misc. I dunno, buy the others and come to the same conclusion I did. Guarantee You'll jerk around with the LnL a lot more. I also have a MEC 9000 for shotgun so Ive a lttle experience with the different manufacturers.

[Foxbat]

I used to own two different shades of red, plus green, but now it is all blue down there.

Yes, I do like SOME elements of Hornady, but their case feeder is awful, and their bullet feeder is one sick joke. So I am firmly in the "buy once, cry once" school of thought. The 1050 might be too much for some folks, but a 650 with MBF is just great.

[michael.flitcraft]

Get the Dillon 650. I just changed over from a Hornady LnL AP to the blue cool-aide, and it's a night and day difference. Price is about the same if both setup with a case feeder.

Started off with a Lee single stage then Loadmaster, and the prime system on the Loadmaster is flat out dangerous in my opinion. That $5 blast sheild they sell should be installed on the press from the factory.

Edited April 27, 2016 by michael.flitcraft

[Want2BS8ed]

I just replaced two LNL's with a Mk7 driven 1050. While the LNL's can be made to run well, you will be producing better ammunition faster on a 650. Running a 1050 is no more complicated if you can afford the upfront cost and i really like the priming system and mechanics.

I used to think the Hornady powder drop was the holy grail, but oddly enough was able to dial the Dillon drop in faster and have found it to be more consistent with the two powders I've tried so far (VV N320 & CFE Pistol).

Priming on the downstroke is nice, however I hated the LNL's priming with a passion. I tweaked, polished, relieved and shimmed, but never could really ever get it to work consistently for more than a few hundred rounds. The retainer for the primer actuating rod was the only part that ever broke on the press as well.

Someone mentioned earlier the heavier LNL sub-plate would lead to more accurate rifle rounds and while that may be true, the nature of the die bushings more than negates any benefit from a stiffer base. That having been said, I've loaded some pretty darn accurate rifle loads on those presses.

Come to think of it, I am sounding really down on the LNL's, which isn't the case. They are great presses and I loved mine once they were running... I just think I love Dillon more now!

I'll close with one last minor observation: noise. I was struck with how much quieter and smoother the Dillon case feeder was over the Hornady. I mean really, they basically look the same, but there is a vast difference in quality. And bullet feeders? Get a Mr. Bullet Feeder, You literary have to wear hearing protection with the Hornady.

Good luck and hope the info helps.

M

[BeerBaron]

since you shoot every week I'd suggest 650 + case feeder or perhaps even a 1050.

[earthshine402]

650 with a case and bullet feeder.. loads great!

i also have a nice part that a local shooter made that replaces the plastic ramp that engages the primer system advance - so i can disable the primer system advance if i want - great during load development.

[IDescribe]

Someone mentioned earlier the heavier LNL sub-plate would lead to more accurate rifle rounds and while that may be true, the nature of the die bushings more than negates any benefit from a stiffer base.

I'm really not sure what you mean by "the nature of those die bushings".

The issue with the 650 is that as the shell plate bows or "domes" a little, and as that happens, the bases of the cases turn outward (albeit slightly) and the center axis of the case is no longer in alignment with the the center axis of the die. The case is going to go into the die at an ever so slight angle, and whereas the die is going to force the case straight up and down, the case head is going to be held in place and fight against it, and the result is to be measurable in case concentricity and bullet runout. Anyone can see the mechanics of what's going on by pulling the first four rounds off the press as the shellplate is filling up and measuring them dimensionally against a round AFTER the shellplate is full.

And again, I want to be clear, I can't detect a measurable effect in accuracy with this out to 50 yards with pistol. I'm not suggesting this is a big deal or should be a deal breaker. I like my 650. But there IS going to be an impact at some distance with rifle, how far I don't know. I was just trying to point out that particular advantage to the LnL, which may never come into play for the owner.

[michael.flitcraft]

duplicate

Edited April 28, 2016 by michael.flitcraft

[michael.flitcraft]

With the Hornady bushing setup, every die moves independent of other dies, no matter what you try to do. In theory this might lead to better ammo since problems with one die don't impact others, but what it would do for me is get occasional crazy differences between min/max lengths with about .035" deviation when it didn't jump up to .200 randomly.

With the Dillon all dies are fixed to the same mounting plate, and share the same shellplate. Variances will exist here as well but should be more consistent, since they're referenced together and thus easier to minimize.

The Hornady bushings would have serious potential if there was a way to lock them to the head of the press securely.

Edited April 28, 2016 by michael.flitcraft

[IDescribe]

The highly regarded Forster Co-Ax operates on the principle that it's best to have some play in the dies and cases so that they can find their own way, that that leads to better concentricity. I'm not convinced that everything being tight and fixed produces better ammo.

[Miranda]

ok, now we are getting into ammo press design...

allowing the dies to find their own centers might be a VERY good idea

however and that is a darned big however

the die has to have a reliable repeatable stop at a dimension.

it is also important that the die and ram stay true.

that is a lot of careful engineering and manufacturing.

the price paid is always a concern.

so while I am sure it is possible to make a better

priming system than what is on the lee turret ...

it is hard to imagine a lower priced one.

a tray and mark 1 eyeball guided fingers...

miranda

[Shmella]

I have a LNL now and am selling it very soon to fund a 650 purchase. I am a procrastinator and wait till the night before a shoot to load up and it is normally a nightmare. Hornady's warranty is great and customer service is always a pleasure to talk with but I am sick of tinkering every time I sit down to load on it. To be honest most of the issues I have could be solved if I take the time to take it fully apart and call up hornadys customer service to replace any part in question but I dont want to or really have the time to tinker with the press all the time and then wait for replacement parts.

The primer system is my most hated aspect of the press. It works for a while but needs to be finely sanded and smoothed out to get rid of any high friction points. It also needs to be kept really clean to work. The design of the priming system is set up to fail, too much rubbing metal on metal and wears out quick. Hornady is sending me an entire new priming system and a bunch of other parts. After I get all the parts in and fully take it apart and address all of the little issues it will run fine. Ive put off addressing the quirks of the press for quite some time now and last time I loaded it took me hours to load up 200-300 rounds. Clearing the case feeder in numerous ways, dropping cases on the floor, crushing primers and having to clean up that mess, the infamous "brass rain" are a few events that I'm fed up with and were part of my last reloading session.

It worked great at first and will work with all of the new parts and a good thorough cleaning, but I want to try the blue koolaid and spend less time reloading. I like getting new things too so there's my other excuse to sell it and get a 650. Never had one but I still recommend getting a Dillon.

[BeerBaron]

That's the great part of a 650 I can sit down the night before a match and crank out my 300 rounds in 30min from start to finish. It just works. The primer system on it is arguably the best of all the dillon presses apart from 2 things. No elegant way to trap and reuse primers if no case is fed during a cycle. No adjudtment of seat depth. However from a reliability perspective it's very hard to beat. Some features are nice to have but ultimately reliability is what affects loading speed. The 650 has reliability in spades.

[midvalleyshooter]

I have had my 1050 for 20+ years. In the distant past I had a Lee Pro 1000 and a 550. The Lee was fine for .38 Special but broke often once I went to 9mm and .45 ACP. The I got the 550 and it was solid, I have no complaints on the 550 except in hindsight after using my 1050 so many years the 550 was real slow:)

If funds are an issue buy the 650 with no case feeder for now. Then get the case feeder later. If you can swing it the 1050 is worth every penny.

[Want2BS8ed]

Someone mentioned earlier the heavier LNL sub-plate would lead to more accurate rifle rounds and while that may be true, the nature of the die bushings more than negates any benefit from a stiffer base.

I'm really not sure what you mean by "the nature of those die bushings".

Primarily vertical play in the bushings leading to inconsistent COLs.

The fix is/was shim brass washers under the bushings to lock them to the press. A workable solution, but one more thing to keep track of during caliber changes.

On the flip side, it sure was easier to drain the powder measure; just twist, lift and dump.

M

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[frgood]

Hello everyone, I am going to be new to the reloading game. I have this do it once, do it right idea about this however I am not a pro shooter. I enjoy my weekend USPSA pistol and 3 gun matches. I plan to go to some larger competitions when some time frees up. I will primarily be reloading 9mm right now. Maybe down the road I will venture into reloading some .223. Any help/insight would be great.

thank you

If you a truly a 'do it once do it right'. perhaps this isn't the best task to undertake. There are going to be mistakes and redo's. It is the one aspect of life where learning is doing.

The first one will be the learning machine from which you will genuinely learn what you want and are capable of doing.

I started with a Lee Classic Turret based on a friend that could give me a complete list up front. Soon after I bought a single press for little quickie things (it was only $30), then a SDB for higher production of .40.

To best answer your question ,sarcasm> What do you want to do? what wll you really do once you start? and what will you change in the future?</sarcasm>

My best advice. Buy a $30 single and run make a couple hundred rounds You will then know what annoys you and what actions you wish to automate. Avoid analysis paralysis,

[IDescribe]

That's the great part of a 650 I can sit down the night before a match and crank out my 300 rounds in 30min from start to finish.

I do the same thing, except the morning of. I'm definitely confident in the machine.

[jrguar]

Can't go wrong with a 550B .. I've loaded more then 100000 rounds on mine and it functions like a champ...if you plan on loading alot.. the best thing you can do is get several primer tubes... and multiple tool heads..

[Kaldor]

Lots of good viewpoints here from lots of people.

I see both sides of the argument, and at this point we are looking at Red vs Blue. As I stated before, I own a LnL. Mine runs well after a bit of tuning. Others have massive issues.

However, if you are only going to load 9mm for now, and 223 down the road, my vote is overwhelming for buying a 650.