STI Trubor.....9mm or 38 Super ?

[Banacek]

Who does not already go through all their match brass with extra care for either 38 super or 9mm? I do not go through my 9mm major practice brass and rarely if ever have an issue with the gun. I switched to 9mm major last year and I now since I do not worry about picking up brass, I practice more. 9mm Major is a win-win for me!

[Bruce]

I read this thread and think back on all the larger caliber rifle brass I have never recovered...and never missed.

Shooting to me is a hobby. I stress enough at work to not stress about the cost of putting bullets downrange. If it came to that maybe I would go crazy and either stop shooting or shoot, I don't know, air rifles?

My advice is find a gun made by the 'smith you want one from, shoot it in 9mm and 38SC if you can, and decide what you like. You can add up the cost of all the brass you lose in life and it won't be an amount that can change your life one way or another.

Good luck in your hunt!! Have fun.

[kneelingatlas]

I had a 9mm V12 once upon a time and didn't care for it; it had to be loaded pretty hot to make major and was pretty violent. If I had one today I'd pull the comp off the second barrel and replace it with a good comp and 2-3 holes.

[Shadyscott999]

I think if you ask the top smiths what caliber they build for shooters by class, you will find very few M class and above shooting 9M. There are some but the majority are shooting supercomp.

If you leave 9 brass you will quickly spend more on brass than the super guy who picks it up. So cost isn't a valid argument unless you are getting equal loading out of your brass. The brass cost thing always makes me chuckle. I spend more on hotels every year by several times than I spend on brass.

Ask a sooper shooter when the last time he had a case separation. I have seen at least 10 case separations in 9M guns in the last 2 months. Those are stage killers and not something I am willing to risk when I am trying to win a match.

Then there is the actually loading process for 9M. My production rate drops by about 30% loading 9 over super. I started with 9major and moved on to super.

[Gooldylocks]

I think if you ask the top smiths what caliber they build for shooters by class, you will find very few M class and above shooting 9M. There are some but the majority are shooting supercomp.

If you leave 9 brass you will quickly spend more on brass than the super guy who picks it up. So cost isn't a valid argument unless you are getting equal loading out of your brass. The brass cost thing always makes me chuckle. I spend more on hotels every year by several times than I spend on brass.

Ask a sooper shooter when the last time he had a case separation. I have seen at least 10 case separations in 9M guns in the last 2 months. Those are stage killers and not something I am willing to risk when I am trying to win a match.

Then there is the actually loading process for 9M. My production rate drops by about 30% loading 9 over super. I started with 9major and moved on to super.

Saying things like "most M or above shooters are shooting 38" is just purely a guess. There are 7 open M's at my club, and 6 shoot 9mm and 1 shoots a 40. So I think that is unsupported conjecture.

And I don't see how the brass cost thing can make anyone chuckle simply because it is absolutely gonna be more expensive. I've seen so many people try to do all this math like "well you buy new starline, and then you pick it up 5 times, and you buy once fired 9mm and leave it on the ground, and then it's the same cost."

Or, you pick up 9mm brass like you would if you were shooting any other division or caliber, and never ever never buy brass. Even once. I have never in my life bought a single piece of 9mm brass, and I have like 10 gallons of it.

Imho

[Shadyscott999]

I think if you ask the top smiths what caliber they build for shooters by class, you will find very few M class and above shooting 9M. There are some but the majority are shooting supercomp.

If you leave 9 brass you will quickly spend more on brass than the super guy who picks it up. So cost isn't a valid argument unless you are getting equal loading out of your brass. The brass cost thing always makes me chuckle. I spend more on hotels every year by several times than I spend on brass.

Ask a sooper shooter when the last time he had a case separation. I have seen at least 10 case separations in 9M guns in the last 2 months. Those are stage killers and not something I am willing to risk when I am trying to win a match.

Then there is the actually loading process for 9M. My production rate drops by about 30% loading 9 over super. I started with 9major and moved on to super.

Saying things like "most M or above shooters are shooting 38" is just purely a guess. There are 7 open M's at my club, and 6 shoot 9mm and 1 shoots a 40. So I think that is unsupported conjecture.

And I don't see how the brass cost thing can make anyone chuckle simply because it is absolutely gonna be more expensive. I've seen so many people try to do all this math like "well you buy new starline, and then you pick it up 5 times, and you buy once fired 9mm and leave it on the ground, and then it's the same cost."

Or, you pick up 9mm brass like you would if you were shooting any other division or caliber, and never ever never buy brass. Even once. I have never in my life bought a single piece of 9mm brass, and I have like 10 gallons of it.

Imho

Apparently you want to fight and your reading comprehension sucks. I can absolutely prove what I said. 99% of all guns that come from Akai for M and above shooters are supercomp. I expect the same from other top builders.

And again, reading comprehension. I said if you leave 9mm brass ( as many claim to do) vs picking up super brass as most do, the 9mm will cost the same or more in the long run. It's simple math.

You have a 9mm fetish. It's okay. I really don't care what you shoot.

[Ultimo-Hombre]

Going to war over 9major or 38super is a waste of energy.

[GrumpyOne]

Letting things in this thread get personal will get it closed.

[Ultimo-Hombre]

On the original question....

9 major is no big deal, you don't gotta tweak out on brass and your gun is easier to sell if you need to punch out.

Otherwise it is a flip and catch argument.

[EEH]

Scott,,if I could shoot like you,,I wouldn't care if it was 38 special !!

[Shadyscott999]

Going to war over 9major or 38super is a waste of energy.

Yes

[Shadyscott999]

Scott,,if I could shoot like you,,I wouldn't care if it was 38 special !!

You should really set your goals higher.

[Gooldylocks]

I think if you ask the top smiths what caliber they build for shooters by class, you will find very few M class and above shooting 9M. There are some but the majority are shooting supercomp.

If you leave 9 brass you will quickly spend more on brass than the super guy who picks it up. So cost isn't a valid argument unless you are getting equal loading out of your brass. The brass cost thing always makes me chuckle. I spend more on hotels every year by several times than I spend on brass.

Ask a sooper shooter when the last time he had a case separation. I have seen at least 10 case separations in 9M guns in the last 2 months. Those are stage killers and not something I am willing to risk when I am trying to win a match.

Then there is the actually loading process for 9M. My production rate drops by about 30% loading 9 over super. I started with 9major and moved on to super.

Saying things like "most M or above shooters are shooting 38" is just purely a guess. There are 7 open M's at my club, and 6 shoot 9mm and 1 shoots a 40. So I think that is unsupported conjecture.

And I don't see how the brass cost thing can make anyone chuckle simply because it is absolutely gonna be more expensive. I've seen so many people try to do all this math like "well you buy new starline, and then you pick it up 5 times, and you buy once fired 9mm and leave it on the ground, and then it's the same cost."

Or, you pick up 9mm brass like you would if you were shooting any other division or caliber, and never ever never buy brass. Even once. I have never in my life bought a single piece of 9mm brass, and I have like 10 gallons of it.

Imho

Apparently you want to fight and your reading comprehension sucks. I can absolutely prove what I said. 99% of all guns that come from Akai for M and above shooters are supercomp. I expect the same from other top builders.

And again, reading comprehension. I said if you leave 9mm brass ( as many claim to do) vs picking up super brass as most do, the 9mm will cost the same or more in the long run. It's simple math.

You have a 9mm fetish. It's okay. I really don't care what you shoot.

I don't have a 9mm fetish, I just think that wasting money on brass that you can get for free is silly. But to each their own.

My reading comprehension is just fine, thanks for looking out though. Very few (if any, none that I know personally at least) people shoot a 9 major and never pick up their brass. A lot of guys don't pick it up at matches, but they certainly don't leave it lay during training sessions. And when you want to be good, most of your ammo is consumed in practice, so you are going to get all that brass back. So I stand by what I said, that 9mm is cheaper.

I would love to see the numbers from all these top builders you mention, and expect nothing less than your quoted 99% 38s. I'm thinking that you are gonna be a bit off there, but what do I know, cause I must be one of the "very few M class and above" shooting a 9. Me and like everyone else I know, but whateva.

Sorry for the thread derail, back to the regularly scheduled topic.

OP: shoot both, realize they are the same, and buy the one that is cheaper to shoot. My .02

[Gunjack]

I shoot both, 38sc and 9 open,if I was to ask myself which would I rather shoot if the idea of picking up brass was not an issue? Reloading for 35+ years, 38 super is such a joy to shoot and reload, especially in major. As it currently stands, you have to admit, the 38 super is far superior with options for developing a vartery of clean soft loads. As for the labor involved at the Reloading bench, the 9mm creates alittle more brass work. As for picking up brass at the range, the labor is simular, just at different times (after the stage or after the match). As for cost, it's like me driving my 2016 Vet around town looking for the cheapest gas or using Walmart ammo in a high end shotgun. Although my opens guns are not identical so as to compare recoil and reliability, I shoot the 9s at club matches and 3gun, and the 38sc at larger matches simply because I'm lazy and don't like picking up brass, plus I would rather use the that time to enjoy the sunshine and my good friends.

So which caliber is better? The 9 is probably cheaper as brass cost goes but the 38s is currently superior at the Reloading bench by far. Its my opinion that 38s is not as violent as the 9 at major but thats my guns and my loads.

Open is not exactly the right place for the economy minded. Which division fits in your wallet?

[Sarge]

I think if you ask the top smiths what caliber they build for shooters by class, you will find very few M class and above shooting 9M. There are some but the majority are shooting supercomp.

If you leave 9 brass you will quickly spend more on brass than the super guy who picks it up. So cost isn't a valid argument unless you are getting equal loading out of your brass. The brass cost thing always makes me chuckle. I spend more on hotels every year by several times than I spend on brass.

Ask a sooper shooter when the last time he had a case separation. I have seen at least 10 case separations in 9M guns in the last 2 months. Those are stage killers and not something I am willing to risk when I am trying to win a match.

Then there is the actually loading process for 9M. My production rate drops by about 30% loading 9 over super. I started with 9major and moved on to super.

Saying things like "most M or above shooters are shooting 38" is just purely a guess. There are 7 open M's at my club, and 6 shoot 9mm and 1 shoots a 40. So I think that is unsupported conjecture.

And I don't see how the brass cost thing can make anyone chuckle simply because it is absolutely gonna be more expensive. I've seen so many people try to do all this math like "well you buy new starline, and then you pick it up 5 times, and you buy once fired 9mm and leave it on the ground, and then it's the same cost."

Or, you pick up 9mm brass like you would if you were shooting any other division or caliber, and never ever never buy brass. Even once. I have never in my life bought a single piece of 9mm brass, and I have like 10 gallons of it.

Imho

Apparently you want to fight and your reading comprehension sucks. I can absolutely prove what I said. 99% of all guns that come from Akai for M and above shooters are supercomp. I expect the same from other top builders.

And again, reading comprehension. I said if you leave 9mm brass ( as many claim to do) vs picking up super brass as most do, the 9mm will cost the same or more in the long run. It's simple math.

You have a 9mm fetish. It's okay. I really don't care what you shoot.

I don't have a 9mm fetish, I just think that wasting money on brass that you can get for free is silly. But to each their own.

My reading comprehension is just fine, thanks for looking out though. Very few (if any, none that I know personally at least) people shoot a 9 major and never pick up their brass. A lot of guys don't pick it up at matches, but they certainly don't leave it lay during training sessions. And when you want to be good, most of your ammo is consumed in practice, so you are going to get all that brass back. So I stand by what I said, that 9mm is cheaper.

I would love to see the numbers from all these top builders you mention, and expect nothing less than your quoted 99% 38s. I'm thinking that you are gonna be a bit off there, but what do I know, cause I must be one of the "very few M class and above" shooting a 9. Me and like everyone else I know, but whateva.

Sorry for the thread derail, back to the regularly scheduled topic.

OP: shoot both, realize they are the same, and buy the one that is cheaper to shoot. My .02

Don't have a class breakdown but my builder told me awhile back 99% of the open guns he builds are 9MAJOR. It's the default caliber on his build page as well

[echotango]

Not sure how 38 is easier at the loading bench? Clean, load, shoot, repeat. Not knocking 38. I could care less what anyone else shoots. But there are no extra steps loading 9.

Edited April 4, 2016 by echotango

[echotango]

Another thing to think about as stated above, 38's seem hard to sell. They are for sale for quite a while. 9's typically sell in minutes/hours.

Edited April 4, 2016 by echotango

[kneelingatlas]

Another thing to think about as stated above, 38's seem hard to sell. They are for sale for quite a while. 9's typically sell in minutes/hours.

[Gunjack]

Not easier except for sorting out the junk brass and pitching out the 9mm cases (ammoland, imt,fm, etc) with the reinforcements inside the case, not to mention crimped Nato primer pockets. It's all part of reloading but there are some elements that make the 38s more attractive at the Reloading bench especially when considering load data options. It's simple, the 38s case can hold a larger volume of powder which creates more load options, using a wider variety of powders, bullet weights, etc.

[Gooldylocks]

Open is not exactly the right place for the economy minded. Which division fits in your wallet?

Reloading 9 major is cheaper than loading production ammo, in my experience. The high powder charge doesn't make up for the expensive heavy bullets that people use in production. Limited is even more drastic. So really the only additional cost associated with it is at the beginning when you buy the expensive gun and magazines, after that there isn't really any monetary difference between open and the other divisions.

[Gooldylocks]

Not sure how 38 is easier at the loading bench? Clean, load, shoot, repeat. Not knocking 38. I could care less what anyone else shoots. But there are no extra steps loading 9.

+1

Clean, load, check for cracks or high primers (which should get done regardless of caliber), shoot.

My 2011 actually has much less of an issue with bulged cases than my limited gun, so I don't even case gauge my ammo.

[Gunjack]

Lots of opinions, have fun and shoot safe.

[DenverDave]

Out of curiosity....
How many rounds can you get into a big stick in 9mm and then in 38 Super?

[Gooldylocks]

Out of curiosity....

How many rounds can you get into a big stick in 9mm and then in 38 Super?

Super, most people get 28 or 29

9mm, 29 and some 30

Supercomp 29-30+ if you are willing to throw the money at it. I believe there use to be a guy who made 32 round super comp sticks, out of rescomp or SPS tubes? They were a whole pile of money though, I don't know the specifics that was before my time.

[Hello]

Stay after the match look for the largest piles of brass pick it all up. Tell your club members you will trade 2 for one 9, 40, etc. for super comp. Have got many free buckets of SC that way.