Attracting People To The Game

[Jim Norman]

What "Para-Military are you talking about?

At our matches most people are dressed in shorts or jeans and various T's, often nt even shooting related. A few wear BDU or 5.11 pants. Yes, we run around with guns, DUH!, We shoot at "Humanoid" shaped targets "Double-Duh!', but I would say that is the extent of any semblance of Para-Military.

Would you have us switch to the turtle target and wear team colors? or maybe we should eliminate movement? How about reducing the round count and only counting points scored, regardless of time? Wait, that's Bullseye.

Seriously, we shoot a sport that will not without such major changes, will never appeal to the majority of shooters. It is not a spectator sport.

THe only reason that Downhill racing is a spectator sort is that we have a camera set up at stragigic points on the course.

Would you mandate that we use only open mesh for walls? Eliminate doors?

I would love us to be understood and welcomed, however we won't be. Cowboy shooting speaks of an innocent age. It wasn't and the cowboys they depict never lived in the time the movies say they did.

It is interesting that WWII Re-enactors are welcomed, complete with tanks, but we are castigated from within for wearing jeans and a T-shirt to shoot.

Would someone care to tell me what would make use appear warm and fuzzy to the public, short of ceasing to exist?

Jim

[tightloop]

When people hear about action pistol they immediately think that we are training paramilitary folks to shoot and that iswhat we do to.....

[EricW]

...what is the problem with merging with IPSC again....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

David, you absolutely, positively do NOT want that to happen.

IPSC needs to see the light and merge with USPSA, not the other way around.

[Stuck in C]

I did it myself, didn't I? Didn't mean to insult 1911 single stacks, since the only divisions I have shot in are Production (Glock 34) and L-10 (1980's Series 70 Colt, stock except for smoothed trigger internals). I am trying to get up the nerve to shoot Limited with my CZ IPSC STD. And for awhile my nickname with my very liberal west coast relatives was "Bubba".

[Jim Norman]

Tighloop

I don't know you, I don't know who you shoot with and I don't know where you shoot, but I can assure you we, I my shooting friends, my club, and my section, is, are not either training para-military people nor are we para-military.

We are shooters, we like to shoot fast from multiple positions, at sometimes moving, sometimes still targets, and sometimes on scenario based generally not scenario based courses of fire.

Maybe you are para-military. I would also assume, and I realize how dangerous that is, that you perhaps shoot with a mono-cultural crowd? Here our crowd crosses all racial, sexual and economical lines. Hardly a breeding ground for revolutionary para-military types.

If you feel that USPSA is a para-military organization, perhaps you had better re-examine your surroundings and your ideas and ideals.

Or then again, maybe I am off-base? I realize that there are those people in the world that view all guns and all shooting as evil. Especially anyone that shoots fast or wears anything other than a white cowboy hat.

Jim Norman

[George]

Jim, no one is saying we are para-military, but that is the perception to the unwashed masses and we need to change that pronto, or we will evaporate like the little puddle we are on our own.

To combat that perception inaccuracy is what PR is all about. At the moment we have lots of bad unintentional PR and almost no good intentional PR except in very niche oriented directions that have nothing to do with overall perception in the world view of us.

World IPSC has a leg up on us in that because it is a global organization, it is perceived as an organization that has legitimacy on the level of the Olympics as far as competition goes. Countries court the World Shoot much as cities vie for the Olympics. When was the last time a city petitioned USPSA to bring a match to their burgh?

If we were part of a world organization, then we might just gain a little recognition and maybe some gubmint approval instead of the powers that be just pretending we are a bunch of NRA bubba's that belong to a rural shooting club and don't care about anything but beer and chaw. I don't think we want NRA affiliation anywhere as much as we want World IPSC affiliation.

As far as not liking World IPSC, the great motivational speaker Tom Peters said it best when he said "I reserve the right to change my mind at a moments notice, when given new information". As it stands, I have no negative info on World IPSC and a very low opinion of how USPSA conducts it's business in comparison to IPSC.

With World IPSC we are a "Worldwide Organization", without them we are a small band of local clubs to the powers that be in this country and our home states.

--

Regards,

[tightloop]

Jim

It was not me who referred to USPSA as a training place for paramilitary types, it was George in Post #41 if you care to look back...my comments were that I could see how someone could view us in that manner...

Sorry if I led you astray with my comments...did not mean to do that...

[George]

Yes, Jim, it was I. And to further state the issue (again), I only said that we are viewed that way by a world of people who don't know what we are really about because they jump to conclusions and form opinions without actual info. Here is the actual statement:

"we will never be anything but an American paramilitary training phenomena in the overall world eye"

No reference to us actually being that, just thought of as that.

It is unbelievable how many folks jump to that type of conclusion when you try to tell them what you do for a hobby. The comment usually runs "Are you training for WWIII or something?" This type of thing is a real big PR problem.

--

Regards,

[Still Praying]

Ok guys lets face it. Most guys are to scared to try this for many reasons, but their are some that might try it if we help them see the light. What is the light that we see that they can't see? We know that you don't have to be a great shooter and have $3,000 to spend on "stuff" to play this game, and 8 out of 10 shooters will do all that they can to help them get started and maybe someday help them to beat them. Also most of the shooters I know go to the matches to shoot, but most of all to see the friends they made while shooting.

So here's the deal. The next time you see someone at a match that don't have a gun straped on, STOP WHAT YOU ARE DOING AND TALK TO THEM. Tell them about the people, the friends you've made while shooting, how many miles you travel to see them each weekend, how helpful they are (to you and new shooters), Let them know about the classes GM-D and UNCLASSIFIED and that they could win unclassified on the first match. Then tell them about production, $600 for all the gear they need, or maybe they have something that will work. Then show them a target and let them know that they don't have to be able to shoot a flea off of a rats a$$ at 100yards to do this. Then last and most important make sure you give them your name # and e-mail so they will fill like they have a friend already to help them get started.

No this is not anything new, but the stop what you are doing is. I do stop and talk to them, but I know we all have missed that guy standing in the back watching us have a great time. That's the guy I'm talking about. I make it a point to talk to them. I talked to one guy for ten min, then found out he owned the place. He saw what I was trying to do and let me keep going on and on. HA HA HA The point again is I don't see enough shooters doing this. If that guy had four people from each squad talk to him, chances are he would come back with a gun, gear and a buddy.

We will never be politically correct and have Nike and Wal-mart for sponsors and I don't like the sound of real IPSC, we are getting some good media coverage, so lets take advantage of it and get that guy shooting. We have 14,545 members. If just one out of 10 shooters got that new guy shooting that would be 1,454 1/2 shooters and their buddys. How fast do you what this sport to grow? (Port a potys)? 1/2 a shooter? Sounds like me. Think about it.

Ronnie a-44415

Still praying for that A

PS. USPSA Shooters are scared too. They don't want to shoot the shoot off's. See Area 6 2005

[ipscron2000]

Ok guys lets face it.  Most guys are to scared to try this for many reasons, but their are some that might try it if we help them see the light.  What is the light that we see that they can't see?  We know that you don't have to be a great shooter and have $3,000 to spend on "stuff"  to play this game, and 8 out of 10 shooters will do all that they can to help them get started and maybe someday help them to beat them.  Also most of the shooters I know go to the matches to shoot, but most of all to see the friends they made while shooting.

So here's the deal.  The next time you see someone at a match that don't have a gun straped on, STOP WHAT YOU ARE DOING AND TALK TO THEM.  Tell them about the people, the friends you've made while shooting, how many miles you travel to see them each weekend, how helpful they are (to you and new shooters), Let them know about the classes GM-D and UNCLASSIFIED  and that they could win unclassified on the first match.  Then tell them about production, $600 for all the gear they need, or maybe they have something that will work.  Then show them a target and let them know that they don't have to be able to shoot a flea off of a rats a$$ at 100yards to do this.  Then last and most important make sure you give them your name # and e-mail so they will fill like they have a friend already to help them get started.

No this is not anything new, but the stop what you are doing is.  I do stop and talk to them, but I know we all have missed that guy standing in the back watching us have a great time.  That's the guy I'm talking about.  I make it a point to talk to them.  I talked to one guy for ten min, then found out he owned the place.  He saw what I was trying to do and let me keep going on and on.  HA HA HA The point again is I don't see enough shooters doing this.  If that guy had four people from each squad talk to him, chances are he would come back with a gun, gear and a buddy.

We will never be politically correct and have Nike and Wal-mart for sponsors and I don't like the sound of real IPSC, we are getting some good media coverage, so lets take advantage of it and get that guy shooting.  We have 14,545 members.  If just one out of 10 shooters got that new guy shooting that would be 1,454 1/2 shooters and their buddys.  How fast do you what this sport to grow?  (Port a potys)?  1/2 a shooter?  Sounds like me.  Think about it.

    Ronnie a-44415

    Still praying for that A

PS.  USPSA Shooters are scared too.  They don't want to shoot the shoot off's.  See Area 6 2005

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I do exactly that. It really helps. I can see people watching us shoot, and nobody say anything to them. I guess the shooters think the guest is watching someone they know. I ask the guest what's up? Most people don't want to be a bother or are timid. Not me, I'll bother anybody. We have gained a few new shooters from me teaching the guests about the game and scoring, ect...

If no one talks to the guest, they probably will just leave and not come back.

[Jim Norman]

Talking to people works. Plain, Simple, Don't get too technical. Half the people shooting don't know how the score is arrived at, so don't waste time trying to explain our scoring system beyond: the winner is the guy that shoots more points faster than anyone else, or some similar line. Explain a bit about why and what they are seeing, mentino the safety aspect, we only ever have a loaded gun under the DIRECT supervision of the RO. THis one item is probably the most important to get across. To the casual observer, we are a bunch of people running around shooting. They need to know that only one person at a time is loaded and the rest of us would get a quick trip to the showers if we were to load or even pick up a dropped gun with out the RO being right there.

In other words, be friendly, be informative and be welcoming. They may come back to watch, or better yet, they may just come back to shoot.

Jim

[Irishlad]

I understand there are around 15,000 members now.

In the "Glory days", how many members were there?

[ParaJoe]

As a relatively new shooter in USPSA I don't know anything about IPSC or what it was like in the glory days. I know this though. The people in my club are great. They have answered any question I have had, no matter how mundane it may be. I think the mentor idea and the new shooter intro is a great idea. Get the people out there and show them what it's about. I will have to suggest this idea at our next club meeting.

[redmist10]

Slight thread drift but it could be applied to the overall perception of USPSA as an organization/sport:

Why all the Super Squad and GM's squaded together (or separately as it may be)at the Nationals?

I can understand it if someone wants to be in a squad with their buddies but wouldn't it do more for the lower classes to watch and learn from a GM if they don't care what squad they are in? By excluding GM competitors from being integrated with lesser skilled competitors it would seem to advance the theory of elitism.

I know this is one of the perceptions that I hear from IDPA (et-al. non-USPSA shooters) competitors that scoff and snear at USPSA competitions. I frequently hear that "they are a bunch of a-holes" and other negative commentary on M and GM classed shooters. This automatic segregation seems to add to the sore feelings.

Also, wouldn't it tend to cause backups if one squad is super fast and the rest of the squads are lower classes (slower)? Seems it would cause logistical problems on the range...but maybe the assigned stage times negate this.

[Jake Di Vita]

The reason there are super squads is so that usually everyone that is capable of winning the match shoots it under the closest to the same conditions.

Stage back ups are never caused by how long it takes to shoot a stage....they are caused by how long it takes to reset the stage.

[Rob Boudrie]

I understand there are around 15,000 members now.

In the "Glory days", how many members were there?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

We at an all time high in terms of the number of individuals with currently active memberships. When I was a HQ two weeks ago, the number was just tiny bit under 15,000 - I wouldn't be surprised if it's already hit the 15,000 mark.

[Jim Norman]

Red,

One other reason that the Super Squads exist, these guys feed off one another.

Another reason is media coverage. The TV guys can follow one orr two groups and get all the names on tape for Outdoor Channel or Network, where if we split the Super Squad up over 18 squads, this just would not be possible.

And while we all can learn from the top guns, putting TGO ona squad with three D's might be terribly disheartening for them. By the way, most squads have a fair mix of ability level including M's and G's. It is only the Super G's that really get the special squadding, in fact the rules for squadding seem to point to the fact that they HAVE to shoot on that squad, even if they'd rather shoot with you and me.

Jim

[MBaneACP]

Sorry to be out of touch...been on a hellish round of filming.

I got back last night from the cowboy's End of Trail at their new Founder's Ranch facility in New Mexico. Good lord, what a facility! 400-500 spectacularly beautiful acres; currently 15 large shooting bays and a huge mounted shooting arena; plans under way for many more bays and a complete permanent cowboy town that can be used by Hollywood. This year they drew around 800 "ground" shooters, maybe 100 mounted shooters and had (I think) at least 100 vendors...essentially a tent city on par with DEADWOOD. There were two stages of entertainment running constantly, chuck wagons set up serving food, and several large and small facilities for seminars and training, which also ran continuously throughout the four day event. There were side events, Gatling Guns and cannons at a buck a shot, tons of shooting. There were also dinners, dancing, gambling and a Friday evening concert with Riders In The Sky. Hell, they've even got their own buffalo herd.

This, kids, is how to run the store!

Both Scoutten and I were there filming; SASS' media people had arranged local news and people like USA Today. The whole event ran like clockwork; whatever we needed to facilitate the filming process, SASS had people standing by to help us out.

Before anyone starts on, "yeah, but they wear costumes...," the different between SASS and USPSA is a *VISION* — SASS has one; USPSA doesn't.

You don't need a sound stage to film a USPSA video...you need intelligent direction, some innovative camerawork and a willingness on the part of the sport to move forward, to think outside the ole proverbial box, to take some RISKS. On a national level, we've been presented with an amazing cultural window. I think Tightloop's got the right of, but who's listening?

Michael B

[XRe]

...you need intelligent direction, some innovative camerawork and a willingness on the part of the sport to move forward, to think outside the ole proverbial box, to take some RISKS.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<sniff sniff>.... smells like, FREESTYLE.... ?!?!?!?

[redmist10]

It is only the Super G's that really get the special squadding, in fact the rules for squadding seem to point to the fact that they HAVE to shoot on that squad, even if they'd rather shoot with you and me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

All those comments do make sense...I don't have a problem with it but as I've stated before (in the keeping with the topic of this thread) perception = reality. I did see where they mandate certain folks for that SS.

Media coverage and stage conditions all make perfect sense. That being said I know I learned a lot (even if I can't put it into practical use yet) by just following TGO at the 2002 IDPA Nationals. Understandably, the Super Squads are in it for more than most of us; however, M and GM's not in that caliber could benefit other shooters new to the sport.

Considering all the banter on here about memberships and how to increase it I don't know whether the benefits of a dvd of super squadders outweights the guy shooting his first ever Nationals with an ambassador to the sport. Maybe the dvd reaches more people than the guy that can say "hey, I learned XYZ from so and so while he/she was in my squad!" Do guys that watch the dvd's pay to play at club and major matches? Probably. Would I rather shoot with Jerry Miculek, Sweeny, Spook, Hop, Bitow, etc. or watch them on a dvd?....

To whom do we want to market our sport? The guy that shoots once every couple of months at a club match or the folks that are willing to travel and spend car payments worth of money to get our butts kicked nationally?

[Flexmoney]

MBaneACP,

You said a lot in your post, and I agree with most of it, but you didn't say much about the shooting.

redmist10,

Those M and GM shooters are at the matches to compete, just like everybody else. Chances are, they have worked hard to get where that are...why not just let them compete? They don't pay thier money to shoot so that they can put on a clinic, do they?

[Mistral404]

Attitude is Everything!

I have had a chance to shoot with multiple clubs in a couple of states at local matches. Some clubs are excited to have someone new show up. They go out of their way to make you feel welcomed. Others do not. The attitude of the existing club shooters is what keeps new people coming back or not. In my limited experience, newer shooters seem to not come back to USPSA matches because of the intense competition, diffuculty of stages, and lack of mentoring.

The no coaching rule is bogus. It is a major stumbling block to helping new shooters feel comfortable in our sport. Action Pistol, IDPA and steel matches seem to go out of their way to help people.

The PR stuff can be managed on a more global level but it is the people at the local level that will generate new shooters.

BTW: I really do not agree with the super squad mentality. Sure it is nice for the good ole boys to shoot together but it is a reall thrill for us in the lower ranks to be squaded with GMs. Most are more than willing to help when asked. Bob Londrigan is a prime example.

[Jim Norman]

Mistral,

I cannot speak for other sections and maybe not all the clubs in my section, but..

We run two intorductions a month, we mentor new shooters and we even coach them, rules be dmaned, they aren't going to win the match yet, but someday if they keep comming back they just might be there to help my daughter learn some fine point I missed.

You are right that a lot of people are not as into competing as others are. USPSA does attract a certain competative type, maybe more so than other sports. I have shot Cowboy, Bullseye, Hi-Power Rifle, IDPA and IPSC/USPSA, so far I have found all of them helpfull to some extent. Hi-Power, we run a clinic and the senior shooters always seem ready to help, Cowboy, I had more loaned equipment than what I brought with me, Bullseye was probably the least helpfull, IPSC/IDPA was extremely helpfull to the point that I have become a Match Director and RO.

I can't remember a Sqaud at the Nationals that I shot on that didn't run the gameut of classes, from D to G. With rare exception everyone was more than helpfull.

The Super Squad is just that, it is a different world, they shoot the same match at the same time, but they are really in a match of their own. It raises their bar that they shoot together and it as stated earlier makes the media coverage easier. So far though, every one of the SS that I have met has always been willing to help. Most of them teach shooting for at least a part of their living.

I can't think of one that hasn't offered help when asked polietly by a newbie.

Jim

[Ted Murphy]

I have taken 3 IDPA friends USPSA shooting this year, their reactions were interesting to watch. For the most part they liked it.

If I were to take an active role in getting new shooters, I would propose this.

1.) Have a new shooters day. Get them on the range and give them a half day or so of instruction in drawing, reloading, and movement. Get a couple of the old hands out there as coaches so the guys can develop some confidence and become at ease with some of the club regulars.

2.) The very next match, make it a "new shooters match". keep the ranges under 15 yards and the movers/swingers, etc simple. Lots of run and gun, few if any standards.

I'm not advocating dumbing down the stages all the time, but setting up some baby steps might help.

We do the new shooters day at our IDPA club and it doesget them hooked and interested. It is an investment of time and energy but I think it pays off.

Ted

[MBaneACP]

Hey Flex;

SHOOTING-WISE, I really like scenario-based practical shooting. From a video standpoint, scenario-based shooting is cool. You don't have to structure your narrative as tightly as you do in, say, Steel Challenge shooting. You still have to make sure there's a story (as opposed to just reporting results), but it's a bit easier to do that in a scenario-based format.

From a video standpoint, the ranges are the toughies. If the range looks like ca-ca, it's that much harder. The trick is to make the competition look like fun. What makes that if you focus on the *competition,* you have to first make sure that the viewers *know* the competitors. That's harder than it looks. My co-producer, Robin Berg, comes from the X-Games and he's been through this before. First, you have to make the viewers care about the PEOPLE involved. If you can't do that, it doesn't matter who wins, because the viewer doesn't care who wins.

The cowboy experience is instructive...they had their own show, focusing on their competitions. The show was very appealing to the people who SHOT THE COMPETITIONS. The rest of the television world pretty much didn't care. NONE of the shootiing sports has a large enough "installed base" to carry a show. You gotta appeal to people who aren't involved with the sport, which means they don't automatically know the personalities or even the intricacies of things like scoring, strategy, etc.

In a case where you're having to fill in a lot of knowledge, easier is better. Example...a relatively intelligent poodle can understand how the Steel Challenge is scored; OTOH, half the people *in USPSA* don't understand how USPSA is scored. Another example...annswer the question, "Who won?" If it takes more than a first and last name to answer that question, you've got problems.

Ranges and stages are not designed to accomodate video; ranges are designed (usually) around safety issues. Stages are designed for the shooters — which is as it should be. However, when you want to display the sport to a larger audience, you need to craft some way to highlight your strengths and downplay your weaknesses, which means range/stage design SPECIFICALLY for television, with the shooters adapting to the media. Not that big a deal, really. Have you ever been to a Super Bowl in person? Dull as dirt, because of all the stops and starts for television. The Super Bowl isn't run in real time; it's run in Television Time. That's because the NFL figured out pretty quickly that it couldn't have it both ways. The spectators are secondary to the camera.

I want to do our own match for The Outdoor Channel, which I believe will happen in the next year or so (the transition to hi-def has sucked up all the available resource for this year). The idea would be to create scenario-based practical pistol SPECIFICALLY for the camera, and I've got an agreement in principal. We'll see.

In the meantime, there's a number of things USPSA could — but will never — do prepare themselves for the future. For example...how many classifications does one human being need? The answer, IMO, is one (your highest). How many national championships does an organization need. "One" seems to work great. Half a dozen drive the organization to bankruptcy. Hmmmmmmm. Why would you have more than one Nationals? Hmmmmmm, how about to accomodate the "professional shooting cadre," which consists of about 10 people. Prize tables? I would never hang around for the award ceremony. It's long, dull and the viewers don't care. You want to get a big slpash, give away money and make up one of those big checks. Otherwise, it's snore-nod city. Scoring? Think about why golfers have leader-boards. Props? The lens sees a lot, and the greens at Augusta look better than a grafitti-sprayed piece-of-crap barricade...sort of the "broken windows" theory of match design. Think about it, though...if one of the functions of media coverage is to grow the sport, which sport looks more appealing...one that is practiced in a complete 1880s town or a landscaped park setting like sporting clays or one that is practiced using the remnants of a shed you tore down last summer cleverly decorated with spray paint? I'm not saying that *every* match needs to be tricked up, but there ought to be one that is. Also, consder this...at the NRA meetings, one of the Powers That Be in practical shooting was lamenting the fact that in USPSA, on any given day there's only about five people who can and will win a big match. There's two ways to look at that tidbit of info...either that those five people are so amazingly incredible shooters that only they have the skills, strengths and mindset to win, or that the sport has inadvertantly *evolved* into a sport that perfectly accomodates and reflects the strengths of the top tier of competitors. That's not necessarily a bad thing — if you've got the PR muscle of NASCAR to make your drivers into media personalities. If you don't, it's a hard row to hoe.

Okay, enough blathering. I think I'll go watch 24 and see if Jack tortures anyone else!

Michael B