Idpa Grand Master

[Joe D]

It is about time for a GM class in IDPA. Take the existing scores for Master and reduce them by 10-15%.

[MikeyG23]

Agreed

[Practical Use]

We alarady have Grand Masters.......woops, wrong sport.

Ed

[Sestock]

Why take 10-15% the scores?

[Ben Stoeger]

How many IDPA GM's would there be?

[JD45]

Might as well. Things seem out of place when you see an IDPA master in USPSA B class losing all the time. Then again, it won't change that part. Adding GM does make sense. A guy that shoots a 90sec. classifier has to compete against a 20yr. IPSC veteran that can shoot it in 70 sec. I've never really believed that classes work, they just make us feel better. But if you are going to have a class system, you might as well do it right.

[Crusher]

How many IDPA GM's would there be?

Depends on the "criteria"

[Round_Gun_Shooter]

Might as well. Things seem out of place when you see an IDPA master in USPSA B class losing all the time. Then again, it won't change that part. Adding GM does make sense. A guy that shoots a 90sec. classifier has to compete against a 20yr. IPSC veteran that can shoot it in 70 sec. I've never really believed that classes work, they just make us feel better. But if you are going to have a class system, you might as well do it right.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Boy, do I agree with that. There is absolutely no reason, IMNSHO, for the classes in IDPA. I have seen too many that go to the range and shoot the classifier until they score Master just to say he did it. If they were to change the way they classify, I may change my mind.

Regards.

[Joe D]

Ben, looking at the IDPA Nationals of last year I would probably pick 2 from CDP, 5 from ESP and maybe 6 from SSP.

Not very scientific, just a guess. There is one guy I shoot with that came in 3rd in CDP that can shoot a Classifier in under 80 seconds. I would not consider myself to be a GM level shooter, too long in the tooth. The best I have shot a Classifier in ESP was 82.12

[Practical Use]

The solution is obvious - combine IDPA and IPSC.

[tightloop]

NEVER HAPPEN......

[Merlin Orr]

Why take 10-15% the scores?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Decrease the time allowed to "make" Master by 10-15%. The shooter would have to do the Classifier in Less time - ie: harder to get it done in the precribed time.

[sfinney]

Why not add some real criteria, besides %, or time - like:

Hold the classification of Master, PLUS get an overall win in division at a major match with X number of masters/gm's present. Or finish in the top X % of the Nationals, in your division.

The title Grandmaster ought to be an honor, and mean more than "I practice classifiers".

Something USPSA/IPSC could probably use as well.... , before we add the Super GM Class to the books....

[Joe D]

I meant to say times, not scores. I don't like the use of a Classifier anyway. The Classifier does not represent true match conditions. I like the way IPSC does it.

I would rather move up by beating 10 of my fellow competitors in a major match.

[Mayonaise]

I would rather move up by beating 10 of my fellow competitors in a major match.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That means you'll have to go to the nationals Joe. You'll never see 10 MA at any but about 2 or 3 matches around the country otherwise.

[hopalong]

No need for an IDPA Grand Master !!!!!!

Mr Wilson has said that he doesn't care about and want the top level shooters in his shooting sport !!!! wants it to be "entry to mid level type ability shooters" or something of that sort....see the new rule book and the part that talks about intentions of IDPA....

Hop

[Joe D]

Beating 10 of my competitors while I was moving up meant more to me that moving up with Classifier scores.

I think if a Master wins his Division at a major match then he should move to Grand Master. Problem would be determining what is considered a "major" match. The Nationals of course, maybe the Carolina Cup would be another.

I certainly do not consider myself to be a GM even though I won ESP at the Alabama Match.

Easiest way would be to take 10-15% off the Classifier Master times. Problem is there are many "Paper Masters". These guys have a Master classification, yet are beaten regularly by Expert level shooters. I guess some just go out and shoot the Classifier over and over again.

You have shooters that should be Grand Masters and then there is that elite group of 5 or 6 shooters that should be above that level, Dave Sevigny, Rob Leatham just to name a couple. Maybe there should be a "Professional" class.

You have those guys that shoot above the "normal" Masters. There are several here in the South that come to mind, Matt Sims, Tom Carpenter, Danny Pate, Justin Nepa and several more. I would consider all of these guys to be Grand Masters.

[Precision40]

It is about time for a GM class in IDPA. Take the existing scores for Master and reduce them by 10-15%.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Why?

[Joe D]

Why not?

[Hunter-Booth-A43995]

i think this is a good idea i mean if done correctly you could actually see the good shooters from the papermasters i think you should make it the only way to abtain gm in idpa is beat all the masters in a major match kinda make it a honor almost. Make it so like only 1 or two people can become gm in a major match so it is somewhat hard to get . to make it available to those who just practice the classifier over and over and who nomally aren't the best shooters, is for lack of better words is stupid.

i agree also that the idpa classifier should be redrawn i mean i enjoy shooting both sports , enjoy uspsa better , i refuse to shoot the classifer again since it is not anything like what you are going to be shooting unless it is a match made purely of standards, and not only that it is never to my knowledge not part of the match so you can see a guy win a match and "acidentally" have soo many missed on the classifer to get mm.

[Clay1]

Why does everyone want to change the rules all of the time?

If someone shoots the classifier and hits an established goal why would you want to put them down? I am sure that there are masters who shoot better than other masters, so what? Forget the whole classification system and everyone shoot scratch. Guess what, some people are still going to shoot better than others. By the way, I'm not close to a master class shooter, but I would never try to take something away from someone who earned their classification. If you want to add another category is one thing, but to put down some guy for meeting the requirements of the sport is another. Do some Experts beat some masters, yes - then they should move up - no need to tear someone's accomplishments down.

Just my thoughts.

[Gun Geek]

I would rather move up by beating 10 of my fellow competitors in a major match.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That means you'll have to go to the nationals Joe. You'll never see 10 MA at any but about 2 or 3 matches around the country otherwise.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I had problems getting enough even at the CDP Marksman level. By not shooting the classifier, and trying to move up buy match position (but not having enough entries), I got the "sandbagger" label at my local club. I regularly won, and beat half the Sharpies, and a few of the experts (if there were any).

I agree, a Grand Master would be of interest, would help to focus on a few "Rock Stars" which makes marketing and publicity easier.

With all the warts in the IDPA classifier, I don't really have a better answer. Sure you could tweak it a little, but, in the end I don't think you'd come up with an overall better answer (i.e. you could still game it with practice).

I like the approach of IPSC, but the problem is that it is damn hard to figure out where you stand (you have to wait for HQ to send/post the results). In application it is not very noob friendly. As we have discussed here several times, gearing toward the noob/intermediate shooter is where the money is (that is what Bill is doing). I think IDPA actually does a little better than IPSC at that.

[Joe D]

The new rules should make it a little easier to move up by beating a total of 10 in your class or the next higher class.

Gun Geek, if you are beating the guys in the class above you on a regular basis at local and state matches have the match director move you up to the next higher class.

[tightloop]

Everybody had their own ideas of what makes a superior shooter, but I am darned tired of all the talk of Paper Masters...

If you have a given sequence to shoot to obtain that title and practice it till you do...great...if you get beaten by the other shooters at matches shame on you...but face it or not...getting the title is a prestige thing and I don;t know any shooters who do not want to hold a higher classification if there is one avaliable to them....

don't fault the shooters for playing by the rules...maybe the rules should change occasionally to be sure they can still do what they say they can do...

If you practice the IDPA classifier it will provide you with skills the will enhance your match performance....if you get beaten by underlings, then practice till they don't beat you...but there are those of us who did practice the classifier and it was sort of a pride thing to make Master.....I shot it once only for score with CDP, ESP, and SSP to make Master with each..just to say I had done it...then shot CDP exclusively to hone my skills with the pistol of choice.....

It just makes me hot to hear all the comments about people shooting classifiers just to make the title and then fail in regular matches...If you let the Paper Master choose the stage, bet they would be tough for anyone out there...

Just myu .02 worth...

Should there be a Super Master or GM title in IDPA, yes, but most of those guys are Pro shooters anyway, so the regular masters won;t beat then anyway....

[GmanCdp]

How bout you do something like this...if you win 3 or more state or regional matches in 12 months as master,then you would be moved into the PCM class,which stands for Professsional Class Master,providing that was at least 4masters shooting at the match...the whole thing about it is,there really is not a whole lot of masters in any given match, except the nationals..... Masters at Alabama match last week had 2 CDP, 5 SSP, 3 ESP [congrats is due Joe]and 1 SSR master....they had a total of 100 shooters at this match,with 11 total master shooters.....and so the same should follow other divisions also before getting moved up at a match...lets say a CDP MM wins a match with 5 shooters in it,then a month latter comes in 3rd at a different match,,then 2 months later comes in 1st again with 8 shooters in it,then wins again 6 months later with 5 shooters again..then he would get bumped to SS......and or the qualifier would apply up to master...