DVC LIMITED- Violent recoil

[Hi-Power Jack]

Have you tried pushing the bullets back into the case after they're loaded -

will that shorten the OAL (Bullet setback)???

I'm used to shooting a BHP (32 oz) with PF 132 9mm's, and the STI that

I shot in .40 Major didn't feel any more "violent" than my 9mm.

Every once in a while, someone will come up with something like this,

and the conclusion a few weeks later is that their load was much higher

PF than they originally thought, or their comparison load was too soft.

Something doesn't make sense to me ...

[sfinney]

I agree, sounds strange. Bullet setback would be one issue, check your crimp.

And don't be so sure those "powder puff" cheating loads you mentioned, were really that. Maybe they were legit? Go buy some 180 grain Winchester white box and try those... for comparison - or get some other known quantity reloads, and try again. Did you buy your powder new, sealed? Saw someone use a bottle of what they thought was TiteGroup once and nearly blew up his gun, someone had dumped the powder and use the bottle to store... something else. Make sure your scale is calibrated double check your weights against a buddies scale.... a different chrono... make sure you are standing far enough away from the chrono... list goes on. Once you have eliminated all those variables, only then would I make big changes to the gun.....

[jtrump]

Have you tried pushing the bullets back into the case after they're loaded -

will that shorten the OAL (Bullet setback)???

I'm used to shooting a BHP (32 oz) with PF 132 9mm's, and the STI that

I shot in .40 Major didn't feel any more "violent" than my 9mm.

Every once in a while, someone will come up with something like this,

and the conclusion a few weeks later is that their load was much higher

PF than they originally thought, or their comparison load was too soft.

Something doesn't make sense to me ...

Every time I goto the rang to practice live fire I always bring my chrono as it only takes a second to setup and I check my loads every time... Probably a little over kill. As far as bullet setback, I've miked a bullet at 1.180 took it and pressed it into a 4x4 my reloading bench if made out of about as hard as I can and still Miking at 1.180

[jtrump]

I agree, sounds strange. Bullet setback would be one issue, check your crimp.

And don't be so sure those "powder puff" cheating loads you mentioned, were really that. Maybe they were legit? Go buy some 180 grain Winchester white box and try those... for comparison - or get some other known quantity reloads, and try again. Did you buy your powder new, sealed? Saw someone use a bottle of what they thought was TiteGroup once and nearly blew up his gun, someone had dumped the powder and use the bottle to store... something else. Make sure your scale is calibrated double check your weights against a buddies scale.... a different chrono... make sure you are standing far enough away from the chrono... list goes on. Once you have eliminated all those variables, only then would I make big changes to the gun.....

I've shot a good bit of factory ammo through it mostly for the break in period with the stock 14lb recoil spring, Didn't want to shoot that WWB 180g stuff with the 12lb spring as its a peppy 184ish PF haha.. It is significantly noticeable that my reloads are softer than the factory ammo.

All of the powders I have used were new and sealed.

I've used two separate Chronograph's, and shot through them at varying distances, like I mentioned above I chrono every time I live fire just to make sure things are in line.

I have a scale weight set and it's dead nuts on, and I've thrown 20 charges in a row at exactly 4.5g, I also did also bring a case full of powder to my smiths house "right up the road" and we there it on his really expensive scale 4.5g on the dot.

I feel like I've been trying to eliminate every possible aspect of this, But I think it's really coming down to the lightened slide like you mentioned and it's like driving a race car and not a Prius. It is affecting my shooting though because I simply cannot call my shots a lot of the time, and granted I feel great to start out as a B class shooter by simply point shooting, I didn't dive into this to be average, I have aspirations and I love shooting which makes me want to be the best I can be, and if I can't call every shot I will never get there.

Thanks everyone for the replies, They are all greatly appreciated.

[mach1soldier]

Take a slow motion video from the side of you shooting a bill drill. Don't have to draw but it will tell you a lot about whether the recoil is more from the slide crashing back, or crashing forward. Might help others give you ideas as well.

[kneelingatlas]

How much radius does your firing pin stop have? I like them like this:

I would also measure slide travel with and without a recoil spring to confirm the spring us not binding, try a 17# main and 10# recoil.

Lastly just by looking at it, it looks like the majority of the weight is taken from the front of the slide, in my experience that makes for a more flippy, violent impulse, so taking some weight from the rear could help.

It you don't want to cut it you could always sell it and buy an Edge.

[bonglee0507]

Try using n340.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

[CHA-LEE]

What brand of recoil springs have you tried? ISMI are 2-3lbs lighter than Wolff.

To figure out the violent event of the recoil impulse you need to get some slow motion video from the side taken to actually see what is going on when it fires. Take some video and post it up so we can help you troubleshoot.

[45 Raven]

It sounds like you've about got this figured out, and perhaps with some more time acclimating yourself to the gun and perhaps looking at the FPS radius and experimenting with springs, you will achieve the results you are looking for. In any event, you have a great pistol and just based on the couple of videos you provided as well as the insightful data you provided to those on the forum seeking to help you, you have the skill and determination to achieve your goals with (or any other) pistol. Good luck!

[jtrump]

What brand of recoil springs have you tried? ISMI are 2-3lbs lighter than Wolff.

To figure out the violent event of the recoil impulse you need to get some slow motion video from the side taken to actually see what is going on when it fires. Take some video and post it up so we can help you troubleshoot.

I've been using wolff Springs only so far, I've tried 14lb variable and 12lb variable springs, I have some 11's and 12's on the way that are standard and variable. The 14lb ended up in the second shot of a controlled pair being over a foot low from the muzzle dip.

I'm going to attach some pictures, my firing pin stop came like this, and it was one thing that kind of stuck out to me when I first took the gun apart, it sits really low, almost like it's been fitted to short, and also the radius is strange.

[jtrump]

How much radius does your firing pin stop have? I like them like this:

I would also measure slide travel with and without a recoil spring to confirm the spring us not binding, try a 17# main and 10# recoil.

Lastly just by looking at it, it looks like the majority of the weight is taken from the front of the slide, in my experience that makes for a more flippy, violent impulse, so taking some weight from the rear could help.

It you don't want to cut it you could always sell it and buy an Edge.

I took the spring out and it seems like the slide goes back the same distance with or without the spring.

[EngineerEli]

I have to agree with others. It sounds like you may just have to get used to the faster/snappier feel of a gun with a lightened slide. You could try loading 200 gr bullets to the same PF, should more more to the push end of the spectrum and away from the snappy end. You could also look into trying to add reciprocating mass to the gun, I think they make tungsten reverse plugs for 1911/2011's that could help softer the feel a little... A tungsten sleeved barrel could be another much more expensive option... If you get a chance, I would definitely try shooting your ammo through a stock Edge and see if you find the feel of that more pleasurable.

[bmiller]

I have been having elbow issues for the last 2 years. I switched to 200 grain bullets and it took out a lot of the snappiness.

[CHA-LEE]

How much radius does your firing pin stop have? I like them like this:

I would also measure slide travel with and without a recoil spring to confirm the spring us not binding, try a 17# main and 10# recoil.

Lastly just by looking at it, it looks like the majority of the weight is taken from the front of the slide, in my experience that makes for a more flippy, violent impulse, so taking some weight from the rear could help.

It you don't want to cut it you could always sell it and buy an Edge.

I took the spring out and it seems like the slide goes back the same distance with or without the spring.

Round the bottom portion of the firing pin stop to make it look like the one in kneelingatlas's picture. That will help reduce the initial muzzle flip.

But once again, its hard to help you troubleshoot this without slow motion video of you shooting the gun so we can see exactly what is going on.

[MrPostman]

I have been having elbow issues for the last 2 years. I switched to 200 grain bullets and it took out a lot of the snappiness.

Better yet load some 220 grain xtremes with 4.4 grains of longshot. Makes PF and good accuracy not to mention soft shooting. Slower powder = less snappy with a heavy bullet.

Edited March 15, 2016 by MrPostman

[jtrump]

How much radius does your firing pin stop have? I like them like this:

I would also measure slide travel with and without a recoil spring to confirm the spring us not binding, try a 17# main and 10# recoil.

Lastly just by looking at it, it looks like the majority of the weight is taken from the front of the slide, in my experience that makes for a more flippy, violent impulse, so taking some weight from the rear could help.

It you don't want to cut it you could always sell it and buy an Edge.

I took the spring out and it seems like the slide goes back the same distance with or without the spring.

Round the bottom portion of the firing pin stop to make it look like the one in kneelingatlas's picture. That will help reduce the initial muzzle flip.

But once again, its hard to help you troubleshoot this without slow motion video of you shooting the gun so we can see exactly what is going on.

It looks like I would have to take a good amount of material off to get my FP stop to look like that. It's especially noticeable if you look at my FP stop on the side view.

So quick update, just got back from the range.. My smith went with me because he had a gun he wanted to try out, and he brought along a 2011 be had built, Its the reg sti 2011 body with a Caspian slide that is not lightened but does have some front serrations. It also had a 14lb recoil spring in it.. All and All it didn't feel much heavier then my gun, and the recoil felt pretty much the exact same.... Curious if the edge is heavier than that Caspian slide or what.

I do have some 200g FMJ bullets from D&J, I could load up some with the n320 "only have a guess where to start" but then again I'm going from lead to FMJ will it defeat the purpose ;P?

[jtrump]

I would like to find someone local who has a stock edge and feel it.

[Got Juice?]

30lb Mainspring, 5-7 variable recoil spring. 5.8gn Titegroup, 180gn Berrys. 200PF and shoots nice and soft.

Edited March 16, 2016 by Got Juice?

[jtrump]

^^????? Not sure if srs

Why would you want to run a 200 PF, and a 30lb mainspring with a 5lb trigger pull??

[Got Juice?]

^^????? Not sure if srs

Why would you want to run a 200 PF, and a 30lb mainspring with a 5lb trigger pull??

Where do you get the 5lb trigger pull from? Yes, quite serious.

Here is a question to ask. What is the ONLY job of the Recoil spring?

[screwj]

I shoot a Brazos Edge and initially thought it was violent as well. I run 180 JHP zeros now with about 7.1+ of vvn320. Evry time I shot in hot weather, I felt like the gun was more violent than during winter or colder days. This is before I tried grip enhancers. What I found out was my hands sweat a lot since I have soft babybutt hands ( work with computers) and every time I shot the gun, the gun would slip just enough to be difficult to control. Somehow I perceived that as more violent until so tried grip enhancers. After having a solution for sweaty hands, now the extra control somehow translates to normal or nonviolent recoil. I am not sure if you tried grip enhancers but it did wonders for my hands.

Sent from my VS990 using Tapatalk

[Nickb45]

The first couple of times I shot a stock edge I thought they were really snappy. I've always shot SS (200 grain bayou bullet with 4.8 grains of WST making 172pf).

Then my buddy with the edge switched to a steel grip, it made it stay real flat. Then I built my 6" limited gun with a steel grip, 12 lb recoil and 17 lb main spring. I'm shooting 180 grain bayous with 4.3 grains of TG at 1.175, I'm making 175pf and amazed at how soft the gun shoots.

Another buddy has a 6" pistol set up almost identical to mine, his slide is about an ounce lighter than mine (his has cut in the front only, mine is Tri-topped) his gun is a bit snappier than mine.

Edited March 16, 2016 by Nickb45

[awfaxis]

I've had my DVC 40 almost a year now. I got an Edge later last year as a backup gun. I've tuned both these guns to make them similar in feel, same grip, internals, etc. The ONLY difference between these is the slide, and 1 lb difference in recoil spring.

Changes: DVC - This gun's lighter slide needed an 11lb of spring to keep it cycling and throwing brass at least 3-5 feet from me. (That's my made up standard)

Changes: Edge - Put on the same size Extreme grip as the DVC, added tool-less guide rod. 10lb spring.

Using a 180 Xtreme 40 FP (Heavy Plate) with 5.0 N320, this load makes ~170 pf in both.

So the comment that the DVC is violent has some merit, in that I can definitely feel the difference between the two. The DVC feels snappier, and requires me to shoot differently.

DVC - On close double taps, I have to go as fast as I can, or slow down enough to catch a 2nd sight picture. The slide comes back so fast that it will dip a bit if I'm not fast enough on the 2nd pull. I'm trying to grip hard to overcome, but I have tennis elbow in my support hand side, so its not optimal. The heavier the spring, the more the front dips. If I go 10, the brass is flying a bit too far, and I don't want the frame battered.

Edge - Feels tamer, gives the sensation of being slow, meaning I can visualize the slide just cruising back and forth. When it does go back into battery, that is when I can make the 2nd shot, and its right on. The 10 lb spring gave me the best return, but the extra weight I feel in the front of the gun gives me some issues, particularly when transitioning targets in the same position. I seem to wobble a bit. May be my elbow problem.

I like shooting the DVC better, but I have to work harder.

[jtrump]

I shoot a Brazos Edge and initially thought it was violent as well. I run 180 JHP zeros now with about 7.1+ of vvn320. Evry time I shot in hot weather, I felt like the gun was more violent than during winter or colder days. This is before I tried grip enhancers. What I found out was my hands sweat a lot since I have soft babybutt hands ( work with computers) and every time I shot the gun, the gun would slip just enough to be difficult to control. Somehow I perceived that as more violent until so tried grip enhancers. After having a solution for sweaty hands, now the extra control somehow translates to normal or nonviolent recoil. I am not sure if you tried grip enhancers but it did wonders for my hands.

Sent from my VS990 using Tapatalk

Good lord 7.1g of n320 for a 180g FMJ??? How long are you loading or is that a typo haha. What type of grip enhancer are you referring to?

[jtrump]

I've had my DVC 40 almost a year now. I got an Edge later last year as a backup gun. I've tuned both these guns to make them similar in feel, same grip, internals, etc. The ONLY difference between these is the slide, and 1 lb difference in recoil spring.

Changes: DVC - This gun's lighter slide needed an 11lb of spring to keep it cycling and throwing brass at least 3-5 feet from me. (That's my made up standard)

Changes: Edge - Put on the same size Extreme grip as the DVC, added tool-less guide rod. 10lb spring.

Using a 180 Xtreme 40 FP (Heavy Plate) with 5.0 N320, this load makes ~170 pf in both.

So the comment that the DVC is violent has some merit, in that I can definitely feel the difference between the two. The DVC feels snappier, and requires me to shoot differently.

DVC - On close double taps, I have to go as fast as I can, or slow down enough to catch a 2nd sight picture. The slide comes back so fast that it will dip a bit if I'm not fast enough on the 2nd pull. I'm trying to grip hard to overcome, but I have tennis elbow in my support hand side, so its not optimal. The heavier the spring, the more the front dips. If I go 10, the brass is flying a bit too far, and I don't want the frame battered.

Edge - Feels tamer, gives the sensation of being slow, meaning I can visualize the slide just cruising back and forth. When it does go back into battery, that is when I can make the 2nd shot, and its right on. The 10 lb spring gave me the best return, but the extra weight I feel in the front of the gun gives me some issues, particularly when transitioning targets in the same position. I seem to wobble a bit. May be my elbow problem.

I like shooting the DVC better, but I have to work harder.

I've just ordered a ton of springs to try different weights, I know exactly what you mean with the DVC about just literally double tapping instead of a controlled pair, because if you're not fast enough the gun is very fast.. I'm going to put an 11lb spring in it, and work on my FP stop radius. Thank you for the insight.