Advice wanted for 223/556 setup for Dillon 650

[RangerTrace]

I've got a Dillon 650 set up to run 40 and that is all I've ever loaded on it. However, I've been bitten by the AR bug and want to start loading 223/556 on the press. I know a bunch of you load rifle ammo all the time. What I'd like is a list of exactly what I need from Brian/Dillon to quickly and easily change over the press from 40 to 223.

The other question I have is how often do you have to trim 223/556 cases and do I need a case trimmer.

Thanks in advance for the answers.

Trace

[Gooldylocks]

I too would like to have this information... from what I understand we will need the casefeed plate, 223 conversion/dies, a trimmer either on the press or separate.... what else?

The other question I have is how often do you have to trim 223/556 cases and do I need a case trimmer.

I don't know anything about progressive loading it, but I have loaded some 223 on my single stage. You will need a trimmer. I have a couple bench ones that my uncle gave me for loading "real" rifle calibers, and for that I think it would be great, but as far as doing large volume it sucks. bad. So I bought one of these: http://www.amazon.com/Lyman-Products-E-ZEE-Trimmer-Rifle/dp/B00AU6C7MI

Much faster, and about 100X cheaper than the dillon trimmer...

[Lifeislarge]

Lol I'm in the same boat. So far I think all I need is the case feeder plate. Got the conversion, and a two die set (small base), powder, bullets, and I already have a couple thousand processed brass. I'm just waiting to get over elbow surgery before taking on load development. I have the Little Crow trimmer which goes in a drill to trim. Works pretty good I think. When I get closer I'll do more research.

[Gussers]

Case prep kinda sucks for .223 and 300 BLK. If they are range pick up brass, the neck length will be all over the place (as opposed to brass you've reloaded once and all comes from your gun). The bright side is once you've trimmed it all, you should be good for a few firings unless you're shooting really hot loads.

I clean them, then size and deprime, then trim, then run them through the wet tumbler one more time to debur and get the lube off.

I then run them through the press minus the size/deprime step, so just powder, seat, and crimp.

The trick is to make sure you lube the case lightly but make sure you get inside the necks. Otherwise, the expander ball will pull the neck out as it pulls through. You're nicely trimmed brass will have a COAL all over the place. This is even worse with larger calibers like .308.

If you're just plinking, I've even tested skipping the initial size/deprime and gone straight to trimming with my CTS trimmer. Since it indexes off the neck, I've found there's only +/- .02" variation after final sizing. Enough that it still fits within the cannelure on all my loads. I know the purists cringe when I mention this, but it saves a LOT of time and it's been good enough for plinking ammo. Still need to make sure it's only dirty from the powder and doesn't have sand/grit on it that will scratch your die. Still need to lube the case and inside the neck.

For loads, I managed to get my hands on a good amount of H335 and have been very pleased with it. Paired up with 55gr Hornady FMJs and it's better than most factory ammo I've used.

[RangerTrace]

Thanks, that is usable information. I've only shot factory ammo though my rifle that matters. I was able to manage 2" groups (at 100 yards) with my issued ammo...Winchester Ranger 64 grain. This groups tightened up to 1" with AMerican Eagle 55 grain FMJ ammo..

[The Donald]

To load 223, I would buy a couple bags of prepped brass. Especially if you don't have buckets of brass. Besides sizing and trimming you'll need to deal with quite a few with crimped primers. I've seen prepped brass for $100 a thousand. For the 650 you'll need a seating die and crimp die, conversion kit, tool head and shell plate for the case feeder.

[RangerTrace]

I"m guessing that based on the lack of responses to this thread and the hassle of loading 223, most people just shoot cheap factory ammo....I wish I could afford to buy loaded ammo in bulk.

[ctay]

Sgammo.com always has good cheap factory. I've never loaded 223 since buying factory is not that much more expensive and finding powder is like finding a unicorn.

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[RangerTrace]

The main driving factor for me is I have a never ending supply of once fired LE brass to reload. I wonder if it would be easier to just buy a 550 set up for 223? I'm guess a 650 conversion set up like I want would be 400ish.....

[RiggerJJ]

Sizing after trimming is putting the cart befor the horse...gives you inconsistent lengths which will show up down range.

To do it right (imho) you will need 2 tool heads.

Lube liberally for the 1st tool head with a lanolin based lube like Dillon lube. Do not use one shot unless you like having cases stuck in your sizing die.

1st tool head

1. Full length sizing die and decap. Set sizer to do about 75% of the sizing.

2. Empty

3. Empty

4. Dillon trimmer with sizing die, finish the sizing so the case drops in your case gauge.

5. Empty

Tumble to remove lube and burrs. I don't bother with chamfer or debur, its unnecessary (see stations 2 and 5 below).

Swage primer pocket if needed

2nd tool head

1. Universal decap to remove tumbling media

2. Primer and Case mouth expansion. I use a bell die that is actually a swage holddown die for a 1050. Also removes burrs inside the case mouth.

3. Powder

4. Bullet seat

5. Crimp die set to just remove the mouth expansion. Also removes outer burrs.

This system gives me the most consistent loads for an AR. I do the same for a AR10 in 308. Also it gets the most done with out having to handle the brass too many times.

I process (1st head) on my 1050, can do a full 5gallon bucket in about 4 hours.

A search here and in the rifle reloading section will reveal lots of hints and tips.

jj

Edited February 18, 2016 by RiggerJJ

[RiggerJJ]

The main driving factor for me is I have a never ending supply of once fired LE brass to reload. I wonder if it would be easier to just buy a 550 set up for 223? I'm guess a 650 conversion set up like I want would be 400ish.....

For sure get the 223 conversion kit, 2 heads, and all the dies. Yep, probably around 400.

[Bob DuBois]

Full length size mine on my 550, cheap single stage press would work, also remove the primer.

Already had a Lyman trimmer with a shaft for a drill. Stand the Lyman trimmer up in a drill press.

Set the lock on the trimmer then set the lock on the drill press, The drill press will keep close to OAL.

Goes fairly quick. Have run a 1050 with Dillon trimmers, it wouldn't keep as close OAL as the above

method.

Put a 45 degree cutter in the press. Slightly touch swagged cases to the cutter works better

than swagging and quicker.

Processed brass should run fine on your 650 be sure to lube cases, Stuck cases can be a Pain.

Be a little selective on range brass, Like head stamps may be once fires when you pick it up.

Berdan primed? Probably break your primer punch.

Processing on a 650 you would need a Dillon trimmer and brass still needs to be swagged.

[RiggerJJ]

I"m guessing that based on the lack of responses to this thread and the hassle of loading 223, most people just shoot cheap factory ammo....I wish I could afford to buy loaded ammo in bulk.

Did you do a search? There is LOTS of info buried in the archives...my long post above has been more or less repeated several times for people asking the same question...

jj

[RiggerJJ]

For swaging primer pockets, do NOT use a 45 degree cutter. Use a tool designed to remove the swage, like a Dillon 600 or a primer pocket cutting tool. If using a 45 degree cutter it's too easy to over cut the pocket to the point to where after a loading or two the pocket will not hold a primer. A primer pocket cutting tool designed for the job will not allow for over cutting. When processing range brass I throw out a lot of brass just because somebody didn't know the correct way to remove the swage.

jj

Edited February 18, 2016 by RiggerJJ

[dillon]

650 Conversion kit in 223 #21101 $77.95

Steel 223 3 die set #10839 $67.95

650 Quick Change #22059 $108.95

Sm Rifle case feed plate #21074 $38.95

223 headspace case gage #13254 $26.95

For trimming:

RT1500 trimmer #62164 $329.95

223 steel trim die #20107 $51.95

650 toolhead #13863 $27.95

Universal depriming die #22127 $26.95

For swaging:

SS-600 Swager #20095 $100.95

[RangerTrace]

Thanks!!

[RangerTrace]

And that blew WAY past my $600 budget........I guess I will be saving for a while longer...

[JLarsson]

Yeah, by about 50% or so. If you have to swage off-press, would it make sense for you to trim off-press with one of the drill press mounted, shoulder referencing trimmers like the one from Little Crow Gunworks, or something similar? $72 + shipping from Midway would just about let everything else fit into your budget. Maybe not quite, but it's close.

[nwhpfan]

I load .223 on my 650. I have a Dillon case trimmer and it is great. I used a Little Crow WFT and it is great but not as fast. I use a swage-it to knock out the primer crimp and that is not supported by Dillon. Check it out and decide for yourself. Dillon Conversion kit and dies are great.

Once brass is processed loading is just like pistol. Processing brass can be a pain but you can buy processed (resized, trim, crimp removed, clean, ready to load) for less than 10 cents a piece. You'll still be making great ammo for less than factory.

[jmorris]

I run the trimmer in #3 and put another size die with expander in #5 (for .223 on right) irons out any burr/sharp edge left on the case mouth.

Not as good of a method as a 3 way trimmer "pencil sharpener" style but a lot faster and my fingers don't hurt after prepping a 5 gallon bucket of brass.

Trace, you might give Cooper a call and see what kind of a deal you could get prepped brass from him for, even if you swapped your pickups and something, it would get you going with less cash outlay. Not to mention with the 650 your still going to deal with crimped pockets (unless you plan to load them on a 1050) and swaging in a non progressive style sucks just as bad as trimming that way.

Edited February 18, 2016 by jmorris

[Lifeislarge]

You could also try a wanted ad in the classifieds for what you need. I picked up my .223 conversion for a very civilized $55 shipped from an upstanding member. You could also send your brass to these guys http://www.alliedbrassprocessing.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=60 and with your "free" brass, at 4 cents a piece it's pretty reasonable.

[BeerBaron]

It seems to me like the easiest way on a 650 is with 2 toolheads like riggerjj or jmorris suggested. and use the dillon trimmer. the only part then left that cannot be done on the press is swaging which can be sorted with something like the swage it http://www.uniquetek.com/site/696296/product/T1568-6

I know people had issue with other 650 swagers but this one seems to be getting some good reviews. just be aware if it breaks your press somehow you won't be warrantied (which is far given it's a non-standard part).

That would mean now everything is on press, all progressive. first run through to decap, swage, trim and size. then second run through to prime, expand, powder, bullet and crimp. easy.

[RangerTrace]

I run the trimmer in #3 and put another size die with expander in #5 (for .223 on right) irons out any burr/sharp edge left on the case mouth.

Not as good of a method as a 3 way trimmer "pencil sharpener" style but a lot faster and my fingers don't hurt after prepping a 5 gallon bucket of brass.

Trace, you might give Cooper a call and see what kind of a deal you could get prepped brass from him for, even if you swapped your pickups and something, it would get you going with less cash outlay. Not to mention with the 650 your still going to deal with crimped pockets (unless you plan to load them on a 1050) and swaging in a non progressive style sucks just as bad as trimming that way.

Good idea....

[jmorris]

Good idea....

More often than not they don't get posted if they aren't...try to keep the stupid ones to myself, doesn't always work though. Edited February 19, 2016 by jmorris

[broomy111]

I"m guessing that based on the lack of responses to this thread and the hassle of loading 223, most people just shoot cheap factory ammo....I wish I could afford to buy loaded ammo in bulk.

Negative- load thousands of rounds of 223, 308, and 300 blk on the 550 and 650. If you don't want to deal with the swaging, buy the already prepped brass from brassbomber.com. I buy from them and do range pick up's. I do all my stuff in big stages and that way I always have bulks ready to reload. I wet tumble after resizing, after they are dry I will trim with the little crow trimmer. You can trim a ton very quickly. After trimming, I will sit down at the rcbs prep center and swage the crimp, debur and chamfer. Tried using the Dillon super swage, but I can move along pretty quickly on the prep center.

After that and case gauge check, they are ready to go into the bins and ready to be loaded.

I've gotten in the habit to not resize while loading at the same time. I have many tool heads for both machines, I use the 650 to do all the resizing. Throw the 308 tool head on that only has the sizing die, and knock out a few thousand, move those along to the next stage. Throw the 223 sizing tool head on and rip through 4 thousand rounds. Its mindless, but put the tunes on and before you know it, your moving on to the next stage.

I cut 1000 brass at a time for the 300 blk, and same thing. Do big batches.

I have big plastic bins for each stage, so it's very easy to keep track of the rifle rounds.

Just what I do

:-)

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