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working 38 super comp up to major with silhouette & MG JHP 115


evilbeef54

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ok guys i am working up a load for my new to me open gun to major (ideally with a little cushion like 170PF) for my 38 super comp with silhouette & MG JHP 115, oal @ 1.22 and federal match primers. but it is coming up MUCH lower than i expected, need some advice/assistance/hand holding.

GR HIGH LOW LOW PF AVG AVG PF ES SD TEMP
8.1 1378 1349 155.135 1365 156.975 29 9 60
8.1 1409 1359 156.285 1373 157.895 50 14 63
8.3 1388 1364 156.86 1375 158.125 24 8 65
8.5 1397 1383 159.045 1391 159.965 14 5 65
That seems pretty low right, or is this what you would expect? also i was suprised that bumping up .4gr didnt seem to bump up the PF that much.
I have attached the reports if that is easier

OPEN 8.1-8.5 sil.pdf

Edited by evilbeef54
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What temp are you testing in?

I only have experience with 9 major loads with Silhouette and 124's. It took 7.7 to get me to 170 pf at 70+ degrees. I'd figure I'd be over 8 with 115's. Now you add in the typical extra charge needed when going from initial case volume of 9 to super. Seems 9+ would be reasonable.

Obviously I'm extrapolating hard and making assumptions. Someone has to have worked this out and can confirm or blast my theory. How are primers looking and how does recoil feel?

Note that my 170 load crept into the upper 170's when temps got closer to the 30's and 40's.

Edited by theWacoKid
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i was testing in 55-70 degrees air temp, as far as the recoil goes i don't really have a good answer for that as this is my first open gun. It seems to be very accurate on fast splits, the dot doesnt leave the glass when im getting going so i would have to say that is great, but with the low PF i would kinda expect that

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I haven't worked with Silhouette but since most pistol powders are pretty linear, you can extrapolate.

Target pf (170) ÷ actual pf (159) X charge weight in grains (8.5) = charge weight to make target pf (9.0).

I would still ladder up though to monitor for pressure.

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ok, that's about what i was thinking based upon the PF gains vs grains increased, i think 8.9-9.0 will give me 165, i guess 9.0 is safe still, but if i want to build up to something with a bit of a buffer for major matches like a 169-70 then it would be like 9.4 potentially, again this is my first time loading 38 super for a compensated gun, but coming from a lmited 40 baster where i only need 4.9 gr to make major those numbers seem scary, haha

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ok, that's about what i was thinking based upon the PF gains vs grains increased, i think 8.9-9.0 will give me 165, i guess 9.0 is safe still, but if i want to build up to something with a bit of a buffer for major matches like a 169-70 then it would be like 9.4 potentially, again this is my first time loading 38 super for a compensated gun, but coming from a lmited 40 baster where i only need 4.9 gr to make major those numbers seem scary, haha

Based on the numbers in your intitial post you should hit 170 @ around 9 grains.

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dont thank me yet, LOL

anyone think these numbers seem unusually low? or is this fine... looking at the numbers i will probably have to go to 8.9-9.0 to just make 165? Is that ok or crazy

Not with 115s.

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ok, that's about what i was thinking based upon the PF gains vs grains increased, i think 8.9-9.0 will give me 165, i guess 9.0 is safe still, but if i want to build up to something with a bit of a buffer for major matches like a 169-70 then it would be like 9.4 potentially, again this is my first time loading 38 super for a compensated gun, but coming from a lmited 40 baster where i only need 4.9 gr to make major those numbers seem scary, haha

Based on the numbers in your intitial post you should hit 170 @ around 9 grains.

Do the math with 121s and your at 169.

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A slight sidebar but most (but not all) Open guns run better at 172-175. It seems to be the sweet spot for getting enough gas for the comp to work without getting crazy slide velocities. I've had a couple guns flatten out quite nicely by taking this advice myself.

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  • 3 weeks later...

OK so now that A2 is done I can focus on Open. I was able to just barely hit 165 with 9.0gr of silhouette @ 1.233 so far cases look OK, if I want to get up to 171 I'm thinking I will need to up the bullet weight. Not sure how much over 9gr is safe to go

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

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Call the tech guy at Western Powders @ 406-234-0422
He helped me work up several loads for Ramshot Competition and Shilhouette.
He is VERY helpful.

Sorry that I can not recall his name right now........must be an age thing. :(

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OK so now that A2 is done I can focus on Open. I was able to just barely hit 165 with 9.0gr of silhouette @ 1.233 so far cases look OK, if I want to get up to 171 I'm thinking I will need to up the bullet weight. Not sure how much over 9gr is safe to go

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

If you're going to a heavier bullet to make major in Open, you're going in the wrong direction if you ask me. What scares you about going over 9gr? Are the primers all flattened out? I've loaded as much as 10gr of SP2 in a 9mm and 12.4 in a 38 ;) granted, SP2 is way slower than Silhouette (why are you shooting Silhouette in 38 anyway?). In 38 I like N105 or 3N38, if you're not willing to spend VV money, you could try AA#7 or even AA#9, HS6 would be as fast as I would recommend for 38 (Hodgdon recently came out with a burn chart with HS6 faster than WAC, CFE, and Sil, but that's just not true in my experience).

The whole reason to shoot 38 over 9mm is case capacity, if you're not going to use it why bother?

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OK, just new at loading this, I've been reloading about a year, but only 40 major. The guy I got the gun from said he was loading 8.1gr silhouette on a 115gr MG JHP, which is why I went that route, but I guess that may have been for his other gun which doesn't have as big of ports. I was not sure how much is safe to push up past 9gr. A lot of people seem very surprised that it is taking that much powder which is why I was hesitant to keep going.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

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First rule of Open: "a lot of people" are talking out of their ass! It's up to you to decide if I am too :ph34r: Comparing charge weights of powders with different burn rates is like comparing apples and oranges. Your only indicator of pressure is the primers: Federal pistol primers are the softest on the market so they're going to be the most sensitive indicators for you, what do they look like? Are they still round at the edges? or are they completely flat?

We can only work with the information you give us, you mentioned ports in your last post, how many and how big? A picture is worth a thousand words.

I've found 2011 barrels (I'm assuming your gun is a 2011?) vary greatly in the velocity they produce with the same load so if you have a slow barrel with lots of big holes using slow bullets like MGs, you may not make major with the same load as others.

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