evilbeef54 Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 (edited) ok guys i am working up a load for my new to me open gun to major (ideally with a little cushion like 170PF) for my 38 super comp with silhouette & MG JHP 115, oal @ 1.22 and federal match primers. but it is coming up MUCH lower than i expected, need some advice/assistance/hand holding. GR HIGH LOW LOW PF AVG AVG PF ES SD TEMP 8.1 1378 1349 155.135 1365 156.975 29 9 60 8.1 1409 1359 156.285 1373 157.895 50 14 63 8.3 1388 1364 156.86 1375 158.125 24 8 65 8.5 1397 1383 159.045 1391 159.965 14 5 65 That seems pretty low right, or is this what you would expect? also i was suprised that bumping up .4gr didnt seem to bump up the PF that much. I have attached the reports if that is easier OPEN 8.1-8.5 sil.pdf Edited February 14, 2016 by evilbeef54 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbcaster45 Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 Big thanks! Wanting to try Silhouette in my Trubor and it's good to see what others are doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilbeef54 Posted February 16, 2016 Author Share Posted February 16, 2016 dont thank me yet, LOL anyone think these numbers seem unusually low? or is this fine... looking at the numbers i will probably have to go to 8.9-9.0 to just make 165? Is that ok or crazy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theWacoKid Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 (edited) What temp are you testing in? I only have experience with 9 major loads with Silhouette and 124's. It took 7.7 to get me to 170 pf at 70+ degrees. I'd figure I'd be over 8 with 115's. Now you add in the typical extra charge needed when going from initial case volume of 9 to super. Seems 9+ would be reasonable. Obviously I'm extrapolating hard and making assumptions. Someone has to have worked this out and can confirm or blast my theory. How are primers looking and how does recoil feel? Note that my 170 load crept into the upper 170's when temps got closer to the 30's and 40's. Edited February 17, 2016 by theWacoKid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilbeef54 Posted February 18, 2016 Author Share Posted February 18, 2016 i was testing in 55-70 degrees air temp, as far as the recoil goes i don't really have a good answer for that as this is my first open gun. It seems to be very accurate on fast splits, the dot doesnt leave the glass when im getting going so i would have to say that is great, but with the low PF i would kinda expect that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.Elliott Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 I haven't worked with Silhouette but since most pistol powders are pretty linear, you can extrapolate. Target pf (170) ÷ actual pf (159) X charge weight in grains (8.5) = charge weight to make target pf (9.0). I would still ladder up though to monitor for pressure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilbeef54 Posted February 18, 2016 Author Share Posted February 18, 2016 ok, that's about what i was thinking based upon the PF gains vs grains increased, i think 8.9-9.0 will give me 165, i guess 9.0 is safe still, but if i want to build up to something with a bit of a buffer for major matches like a 169-70 then it would be like 9.4 potentially, again this is my first time loading 38 super for a compensated gun, but coming from a lmited 40 baster where i only need 4.9 gr to make major those numbers seem scary, haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.Elliott Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 ok, that's about what i was thinking based upon the PF gains vs grains increased, i think 8.9-9.0 will give me 165, i guess 9.0 is safe still, but if i want to build up to something with a bit of a buffer for major matches like a 169-70 then it would be like 9.4 potentially, again this is my first time loading 38 super for a compensated gun, but coming from a lmited 40 baster where i only need 4.9 gr to make major those numbers seem scary, haha Based on the numbers in your intitial post you should hit 170 @ around 9 grains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamge Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 Can you load shorter? I would be tempted to load as short as the bullet profile allows in your case mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lcs Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 dont thank me yet, LOL anyone think these numbers seem unusually low? or is this fine... looking at the numbers i will probably have to go to 8.9-9.0 to just make 165? Is that ok or crazy Not with 115s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lcs Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 ok, that's about what i was thinking based upon the PF gains vs grains increased, i think 8.9-9.0 will give me 165, i guess 9.0 is safe still, but if i want to build up to something with a bit of a buffer for major matches like a 169-70 then it would be like 9.4 potentially, again this is my first time loading 38 super for a compensated gun, but coming from a lmited 40 baster where i only need 4.9 gr to make major those numbers seem scary, haha Based on the numbers in your intitial post you should hit 170 @ around 9 grains. Do the math with 121s and your at 169. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRobson Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 I was at 8.7gr with a 115 in 9mm. It was 174 PF with a fullsize and no barrel holes. You can also search for Winchester WAP loads. It is reported to be the same powder as Sil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racegun9 Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 Haven't loaded any 115 but I use 125 Zero JHP and it takes about 7.8 grains for a 170+ PF, OAL 1.165 for 9 major. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilbeef54 Posted February 19, 2016 Author Share Posted February 19, 2016 ok thanks guys, I will try some workups with a shorter OAL and see how it feeds also try some others with bumping it up again. I'm not in a hurry, not touching the Open gun till after Area 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neomet Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 A slight sidebar but most (but not all) Open guns run better at 172-175. It seems to be the sweet spot for getting enough gas for the comp to work without getting crazy slide velocities. I've had a couple guns flatten out quite nicely by taking this advice myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HI5-O Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 I was loading 8.7 gr Silhouette at 1.230 with a Zero 121 jhp and getting 170-172 pf at nationals in my 38 SC. You are close with a 115. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aircooled6racer Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 Hello: I was at 8.9 grains with 115's and 9mm. Bigger case will need more powder and it also depends on your barrel. Load to 1.220" OAL and try a little more powder. Remember Silhouette is reverse temp sensitive. Colder it gets the faster it goes. Thanks, Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilbeef54 Posted February 20, 2016 Author Share Posted February 20, 2016 thanks guys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HI5-O Posted February 22, 2016 Share Posted February 22, 2016 I was loading 8.7 gr Silhouette at 1.230 with a Zero 121 jhp and getting 170-172 pf at nationals in my 38 SC. You are close with a 115. Correction, should be 8.3 gr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilbeef54 Posted March 14, 2016 Author Share Posted March 14, 2016 OK so now that A2 is done I can focus on Open. I was able to just barely hit 165 with 9.0gr of silhouette @ 1.233 so far cases look OK, if I want to get up to 171 I'm thinking I will need to up the bullet weight. Not sure how much over 9gr is safe to go Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DenverDave Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 Call the tech guy at Western Powders @ 406-234-0422He helped me work up several loads for Ramshot Competition and Shilhouette.He is VERY helpful. Sorry that I can not recall his name right now........must be an age thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneelingatlas Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 OK so now that A2 is done I can focus on Open. I was able to just barely hit 165 with 9.0gr of silhouette @ 1.233 so far cases look OK, if I want to get up to 171 I'm thinking I will need to up the bullet weight. Not sure how much over 9gr is safe to go Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk If you're going to a heavier bullet to make major in Open, you're going in the wrong direction if you ask me. What scares you about going over 9gr? Are the primers all flattened out? I've loaded as much as 10gr of SP2 in a 9mm and 12.4 in a 38 granted, SP2 is way slower than Silhouette (why are you shooting Silhouette in 38 anyway?). In 38 I like N105 or 3N38, if you're not willing to spend VV money, you could try AA#7 or even AA#9, HS6 would be as fast as I would recommend for 38 (Hodgdon recently came out with a burn chart with HS6 faster than WAC, CFE, and Sil, but that's just not true in my experience). The whole reason to shoot 38 over 9mm is case capacity, if you're not going to use it why bother? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilbeef54 Posted March 14, 2016 Author Share Posted March 14, 2016 OK, just new at loading this, I've been reloading about a year, but only 40 major. The guy I got the gun from said he was loading 8.1gr silhouette on a 115gr MG JHP, which is why I went that route, but I guess that may have been for his other gun which doesn't have as big of ports. I was not sure how much is safe to push up past 9gr. A lot of people seem very surprised that it is taking that much powder which is why I was hesitant to keep going. Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneelingatlas Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 First rule of Open: "a lot of people" are talking out of their ass! It's up to you to decide if I am too Comparing charge weights of powders with different burn rates is like comparing apples and oranges. Your only indicator of pressure is the primers: Federal pistol primers are the softest on the market so they're going to be the most sensitive indicators for you, what do they look like? Are they still round at the edges? or are they completely flat?We can only work with the information you give us, you mentioned ports in your last post, how many and how big? A picture is worth a thousand words. I've found 2011 barrels (I'm assuming your gun is a 2011?) vary greatly in the velocity they produce with the same load so if you have a slow barrel with lots of big holes using slow bullets like MGs, you may not make major with the same load as others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilbeef54 Posted March 14, 2016 Author Share Posted March 14, 2016 OK, thanks for the help and info, I will get pictures of the spent brass this afternoon Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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