RESURGENCE TACTICAL 3-GUN 2016

[VNGunfighter]

Jimmy: on rifle comps - I thought I'd read earlier that outlaw 3-gun comps (1" x 3") were permitted. What about suppressor adapters like Surefire? The Marine Corps is (was?) using them three years ago. With six rifles in the safe, I don't particularly want to build another one for one match.

Please advise on which Surefire comp it is?

[Scout454]

SFMB-556-1/2-28 Muzzle Brake / Suppressor Adapter

. Surefire renamed it the SOCOM.

[VNGunfighter]

SFMB-556-1/2-28 Muzzle Brake / Suppressor Adapter

. Surefire renamed it the SOCOM.

Legal GTG, I really don't know why there was a question regarding this item?...

[Scout454]

Your post a short while ago:

1. 4.3. No compensators on any weapon unless general military or in issue form. Through the barrel and / or slide porting is considered a compensator. A flash hider that is otherwise identical to the military flash hider except that is has a restricted exit is acceptable. [2016: Ported slides functionally equivalent to Glock 34-35 are permitted.]

[VNGunfighter]

Your post a short while ago:

1. 4.3. No compensators on any weapon unless general military or in issue form. Through the barrel and / or slide porting is considered a compensator. A flash hider that is otherwise identical to the military flash hider except that is has a restricted exit is acceptable. [2016: Ported slides functionally equivalent to Glock 34-35 are permitted.]

Your are correct.

"general military issue"... would include this http://www.surefire.com/mb556ssn-1-2-28-muzzle-brake-adapter.html this would be considered legal ( I would look at it twice though), and JP Bennie Coolie comps are good, as well as many others.

The comp thing came later in "SOF", after some JP "lobbying", but the first commercial comp allowed from what I remember was the Smith Enterprise comp http://smithenterpriseinc.blogspot.com/2011/09/some-more-close-up-pictures-of-our-m4.html

Also there was the A2 STD Birdcage that had a washer welded over the front which basically pointed the gun at your feet while shooting...shoot that one

Edited May 26, 2016 by VNGunfighter

[Scout454]

I've shot that birdcage monstrosity, the fork we had on the early M16s was better.

So if the Smith, the Cooley, etc are OK, would any 1" x 3" comp be okay (I generally use a custom comp that Dan Serpina makes for me).

[VNGunfighter]

I've shot that birdcage monstrosity, the fork we had on the early M16s was better.

So if the Smith, the Cooley, etc are OK, would any 1" x 3" comp be okay (I generally use a custom comp that Dan Serpina makes for me).

Yes Mike 1X3 GTG

[MarkCO]

Interestingly, the rules are now very close to Rio's Stealth Division.

[Fallout556]

Will you be refunding the $180 I spent on my 22 inch barrel that I bought specifically for this match several months ago after I was confirmed and paid for my admission just so I could go to this match? Should I hold off on buying anymore gear until the week before the match so that I don't waste any more money on gear that won't be used in any other competition in 3 gun?

ericm

Posted 02 December 2015 - 03:21 PM

"Now, I know all modern 3-gunners only own 1 rifle, and that rifle weighs much more than 10.5 lbs (or 9 lbs, or 11 lbs, or 12.5 lbs), so the hopeless consternation is well founded (but will be ignored)."

"Lastly, in the true spirit of the SOF shooter meetings, it's not that we don't welcome your suggestions...it's....yeah, I just kinda zoned out there...."

kurtm

Posted 11 December 2015 - 12:59 AM

"If we change the rules it won't be an SOF type match now will it?"

I particularly like the last quote. What happened to that thought? This was one of my most anticipated events of the year and this change has completely soured it for me.

Edited May 26, 2016 by Fallout556

[VNGunfighter]

Will you be refunding the $180 I spent on my 22 inch barrel that I bought specifically for this match several months ago after I was confirmed and paid for my admission just so I could go to this match? Should I hold off on buying anymore gear until the week before the match so that I don't waste any more money on gear that won't be used in any other competition in 3 gun?

ericm

Posted 02 December 2015 - 03:21 PM

"Now, I know all modern 3-gunners only own 1 rifle, and that rifle weighs much more than 10.5 lbs (or 9 lbs, or 11 lbs, or 12.5 lbs), so the hopeless consternation is well founded (but will be ignored)."

"Lastly, in the true spirit of the SOF shooter meetings, it's not that we don't welcome your suggestions...it's....yeah, I just kinda zoned out there...."

kurtm

Posted 11 December 2015 - 12:59 AM

"If we change the rules it won't be an SOF type match now will it?"

I particularly like the last quote. What happened to that thought? This was one of my most anticipated events of the year and this change has completely soured it for me.

We did expect there might be some issues with the rule changes. And the positives far outweigh the negatives.

Over a long discussion with staff, outside consultants and the Title sponsor the decision was very hard to make.

I would not expect or assume there will be more changes in the rules from here on out.

We all know 3 gunners are gear fanatics, and especially did not like looking for a 22" shotgun barrel, and looked at what the current lengths being raced now decided to go in that direction. But for some reason they bulk at buying a SG barrel, and at the same time when multiple optics are allowed on a rifle they are suddenly shopping for and Trijicon RMR or something similar at 3X the price.

This match is very unique, and there are more moving parts than anything like it.

Jimmy

Edited May 26, 2016 by VNGunfighter

[ericm]

Full disclosure:

I was the one that provided the paper copy of the original 1999 SOF Rules to be used in this match.

One only need read this entire thread to see that that rule set has been under constant sniping, bitching and moaning from day one.

At a level far above my pay grade (which remains $0 / any unit of time), it was decided to tweek the rules in hopes of attracting more interest in the match (As can be seen here, everyone has their own ideas of the perfect rule set).

As we know, discontent can lead to knee-jerk reactions, which in turn lead to unintended consequences.....

With the two changes (shotgun bbl length and multiple optics on rifle for optic category) we are not yet at the point where we can "proudly" proclaim that the Resurgence is.....well.....just like any other 3-gun match.

Time will tell.....

ericm

[M ammo]

I just need to re-read,,, equipment rules,, to see what I have that fits the rules. I'm not a 3 Gun nation speed demon. pro,,, shooter guy,, I like to shoot. I'm not fast, but I can shoot, My Guns are practical good guns, for all shooting needs,, not just 3 Gun, and they are better guns than Uncle Sugar, let me, travel the world with for 20 years. (yes I would go to War with the guns I shoot 3 Gun with), I have a bunch of guns, 3ea M2's I hope one of them, fits the rules. so I don't have to change up a good working gun,,, I'll probably run in to you at RM3G,,, and do the look at my guns,, for your match,, thing,,, so I'll have a month,, to fix them for the match,, if needed,, . . For many reasons, I was not able to shoot a SOF match, so this is a second chance, on many levels for me! I just need to have the toys to play the game! and don't want to spend $1000 going to a match, with toys I can't use,,

Jim..

[ericm]

.........after the headache passes from attempted reading, your punctuated posts always brighten my day!

ericm

[DocMedic]

The optic rule change is a given, considering that one of the principle's of SOF was using systems that Police and Military are currently working with. Many of my guys ran RMR on top of their ACOG's. However I'm surprised about the shotgun rule change to increase participation, but I do understand the need to do so as 22 inch shotguns are no longer the norm in 3gun. It does take away from the "combat" shotgun experience but to be fair, in my 3 year of deployments I've only seen the shotgun used twice to blow open doors then tossed to the side to use a real gun for clearing. Chuck said recently when it came to the shotgun portion of the match is "Think Louis Awerbuk not Tom Napp for the shotgun." that really stuck on me, I'm glad at least the Magazine Length rule pretty much is left unchanged.

The only rule I want to see changed is the basepad colors... Red is not a offensive color!

[nguySBR1]

The match posts the rules and people complain the rules are to limiting.

The match listens and modifies the rules to be more inclusive. People complain about the new rules...

Is it September yet?

Edited May 26, 2016 by nguySBR1

[DocMedic]

"People Complain"

Yep that's the internet for you.

[VNGunfighter]

The match posts the rules and people complain the rules are to limiting.

The match listens and modifies the rules to be more inclusive. People complain about the new rules...

Is it September yet?

I like this post

[kellyn]

I'm pretty sure that Resurgence won't be just like any other 3 gun match. The facility and stage designers will see to that.

But I, for one, welcome our new rules. Frozen in amber rules from 1999 just don't make a lot of sense given the last 17 years of development of tactical gear (15 years of which have been at war) and competition gear.

[ericm]

There's a lot of blood on your hands from this mess, KNIII.....

You keep using the phase "frozen in amber" a lot: in articles, in e-mails to JP and here....

Show me some "frozen in time" pictures of modern LE and .mil use of the 17 year development gear that you keep harping on (war zone pic's would be nice); we already know what the "competition gear" looks like.....

ericm

[ericm]

.......and I'm looking forward especially to those pic's of all the .mil guys using the Safariland AR mag pouchs overseas

ericm

[ericm]

.....which aformentioned pouches still remain "Not Allowed" for the Resurgence match

ericm

[StealthyBlagga]

Interestingly, the rules are now very close to Rio's Stealth Division.

Indeed. All I will have to do is remove the optic from my shotgun, and strap on some Resurgence-legal belt kit. I am liking this change

Edited May 26, 2016 by StealthyBlagga

[kellyn]

Luke, let go of your hate.

And don't worry about me, I've got my SOF legal mag pouches BACK FROM WHEN I SHOT SOF!!!!!!

Kyle Lamb also ran a tactical match back in the day and he didn't require specific mag pouches but heck what does he know? The stages will test your gear and I'm sure they will as I've shot Eric Miller/Jimmy Holdsworth matches before.

"Frozen in amber" keeps getting used as it is 100% accurate. But you're correct, nothing has changed since 1999. We shouldn't even shoot JP rifles at this JP sponsored event. We should all get Steyr AUGs or stock M4s with an ACOGs or Aimpoints b/c that is the way it is in the "real world." And M9 Berettas or if you made it thru OTC, then a .40 Glock or (if you're old enough) a 1911 with Wilson 10 rd magazines. Anything else is not "real world." Like a Safariland AR mag pouch. That's WAY out.

Edited May 27, 2016 by kellyn

[VNGunfighter]

Luke, let go of your hate.

And don't worry about me, I've got my SOF legal mag pouches BACK FROM WHEN I SHOT SOF!!!!!!

Kyle Lamb also ran a tactical match back in the day and he didn't require specific mag pouches but heck what does he know? The stages will test your gear and I'm sure they will as I've shot Eric Miller/Jimmy Holdsworth matches before.

"Frozen in amber" keeps getting used as it is 100% accurate. But you're correct, nothing has changed since 1999. We shouldn't even shoot JP rifles at this JP sponsored event. We should all get Steyr AUGs or stock M4s with an ACOGs or Aimpoints b/c that is the way it is in the "real world." And M9 Berettas or if you made it thru OTC, then a .40 Glock or (if you're old enough) a 1911 with Wilson 10 rd magazines. Anything else is not "real world." Like a Safariland AR mag pouch. That's WAY out.

I can tell you what Kyle Lamb knows...

He knows how to make it fun and HARD, in some cases VERY HARD.

Lopping of saplings in the gully run(s) at a 45 degree angle with a Kukri, made me comfortable, for my pre-disposition towards such simple horrific devices mad me feel at home, OH..and I lost a shoe there as well, and that's after we crossed a 20' rope line, hand over hand. And the other was the inclined wall that even the best attack dog could not even jump over.

His courses of fire were some of the best one I have ever shot to this day. Real shooting, and a test of gear as well.

His matches were much like SOF in a way, but more like 3-Gun selection.

I'm glad I got to shoot 3 of them, and I know Kyle was also a top competitor at SOF.

Edited May 27, 2016 by VNGunfighter

[kurtm]

Well, I am listed as the "Shotgun lead" on the web site, so it was a nice surprise to read that a shotgun rule had been changed. I get to be surprised with all the rest of you I guess. No one ever asked me anything.

KNIII things aren't "frozen in Amber"! Stick to doing that law stuff, leave the complex molecular changes of lithification, that your primitive mind couldn't understand, to us chosen few of the Geology world......Groovy.

Edited May 27, 2016 by kurtm